Sugata Bose Gandhi was a politician and no saint. He needs to be studied and analysed and not blindly adored or denounced.
Somnath Bandyoapdhayay I belief Gandhi was a British agent. And I can prove that.
Sugata Bose Please go ahead and prove it for all to examine your evidence and come to their respective conclusions.
Somnath Bandyoapdhayay My questions if left unanswered, will establish my belief. 1. Why Gandhi started thinking for his country afer 45 years of living? 2. How Gandhi became a highly popular person India in 1915, when there was only printed media in a poor communication structure. 3. Why Gandhi choosed Khilafat movement to enter in his first movement? 4. What was the true reason behind the pulling the successful Ashojog movement? 5. If once Ganshi decided not to disturb British in WWII, then why he started 1942 movement? 6. How non violent Gandhi suddenly opted Karenge ye Marenge move? 7. Why Gandhi refrained himself from protesting partition? 8.Couldn't he make his famous hunger strike then? 9. Why Gandhi supported Nehru to become PM inspite of his total defeat?
Sugata Bose Somnath Bandyoapdhayay, your questions are mostly valid but they cannot be posited as substantive evidence to prove that Gandhi was a British agent. You need to yourself read up more to find out the answers for your questions. You cannot quite expect the easy way out by asking others to deliver them for you.
Sugata Bose RN Singh, what is it that you imply. The post does not say that Gandhi was a saint. So? What are you hinting at?
RN Singh Sugata Bose That was my response to Mr Somnath Bandyoapdhayay comment. All his questions are easily answered if he cares to read books, documents and research papers available. Of course if he has substantial proof which not just the Indian govt but all agencies in the world do not have...then he should put it forward and prove it rather than make stupid allegations
Somnath Bandyoapdhayay Mr. RN Singh if I a have stupid allegation then everybody may have stupid answers, I can't disagree with you. But you see, all new of this world have been revealed through questions not available stupid answers. Can you deny that? It would be better if you refresh your valuable studies and use those as energy and efficiency not input.
RN Singh Allegations are made by weak people who love calling people who are dead and gone names. Give one concrete evidence which you have obtained , discovered to prove that the was a British agent ....and then I shall humbly bow down to you. And my suggestion is that such evidence that you may have obtained should be laid open to the govt agencies for investigation and confirmation. Until then we should not call people names ... especially The Father of the Nation.
Somnath Bandyoapdhayay I hope either yyou haven't alertly go through my comment or you have opted to take shield as talk show politicians do. However, You please see the sons of Nation then you will get the evidence about how dedicated father he was.
RN Singh No ...I have gone through your comment with a fine comb. I am aware of his relationship with his wife and sons.....not withstanding that ... I was referring to the evidence available with you which can prove that he was a British agent....if you have that then you must share it....that is all I am saying ... otherwise we should not brand anyone through allegations...I rest my case.
Sugata Bose Sangeeta, Gandhi never called himself a Mahatma. It was Tagore who had given him that epithet. In that case if anybody is culpable to the offence of calling him a Mahatma, it should be Tagore. Now, what do you say to that?
Sangeeta Chakraborty Gandhi was against Netaji so how he could be a mahatma. May be Tagore didn't recognize him truely sir.....
Santanu Mitra He was the Father of Pakistan and not of India. In his dictionary " Hindus can be dispensed with, butchered, raped, no problem, but Muslims, holy cow, he will go on fast till justice is done to them.
Sugata Bose You are right. Gandhi's righteousness was very biased and one-sided. Netaji has in his classic political treatise 'The Indian Struggle' said that this was the problem that ever confronted the Mahatma --- his desire for being World Teacher on the one hand and the leader of the independence movement on the other.
Gandhi's flawed vision in ethics and righteousness cost India dear and the Hindus the dearest. Today, even the Pakistani and Bangaldeshi Muslims are paying for his shortsightedness, although, they largely brought upon themselves their doom.
Santanu Mitra It is only people with deep spiritual experience can see things in the proper light. Many a times, people of high intellect make error in judgement, influenced by external appearance or some good act. But spiritual personages like Rishi Aurobindo, Swami Yogananda can see through people. On a personal level, they may show respect, but they will never come to hurried conclusions, like Tagore.
Sugata Bose Were Sri Aurobindo and Paramahamsa Yogananda spiritual personalities? Sri Aurobindo did see through the facade of Gandhiji but Yogananda paid glowing tribute to him in his book 'Autobiography of a Yogi' where he even claimed to have initiated the Mahatma in yogic techniques (kriya, as they call it).
Santanu Mitra You should be knowing this better than me, after such lengthy posts given by you on spirituality over the past so many years. You need not test me. I have gone much beyond that.
Sugata Bose I am not testing you. I am just attempting to trigger off a discussion on this. All questions need to be discussed and all personalities at that, for no one ought to be sacrosanct as to be beyond scrutiny. No one is above questioning. This keeps the intellectual discourse, and why not, even the spiritual conversation as well alive.
Santanu Mitra Sugata Bose : One can initiate anyone. Gandhi was a strong personality, had spiritual tendencies, but, as you said earlier, his biased leanings towards the Muslims has done injustice to the Hindus. If Swami Yogananda has praised him, then it is one particular aspect of Gandhi's personality.
Sugata Bose Perfect and well articulated too. And this is why we ought to shy away from discussing the greats, nay, even from criticising them. This critical conversation keeps the personalities alive in us too and their seminal contributions are not lost on us.
Sugata Bose I sincerely hope you have not suffered my lengthy posts all this while, that is, over so many years. If, indeed, you have done so, then I beg that you will desist to read them anymore to avoid my embarrassment and your discomfiture. @ Santanu Mitra
Santanu Mitra I enjoyed reading them and it also broadened my mental horizon.- Sugata Bose
Sugata Bose Thanks for being a perceptive reader.
Santanu Mitra I enjoyed reading them and it also broadened my mental horizon.- Sugata Bose
Sugata Bose Thanks for being a perceptive reader.
Anjan Bhattacharya Highly controversial leader, specially Noakhali & Kolkata riot. He was not secular off course secular word was introduce by Indira Gandhi in constitution during 77 to appease
Sugata Bose We, indeed, have in India, since the introduction of the word 'secular' in our Constitution, a rather queer definition of the word, quite apart from its dictionary meaning. In fact, it is quite a 'revolutionary' distortion of the real meaning of the word to suit circumstance.
Anjan Bhattacharya Absolutely, secular meaning was and being distorted by pseudo benefits of so called secularists.
Riya Mondal I think people should read his autobiography.."my experiment with truth"..where he deals with his so called bramhacharya... And..after that my question is...Was he a real saint??a real bramhachari??
Riya Mondal Yups...i think some people will agree with us..when then read abt his experiment on bramhacharya on his autobiography.
Sugata Bose Strange concept of continence the Mahatma had. Likewise, I cannot quite accept Aurobindo Ghosh's leaving revolutionary politics in midstream with its catastrophic consequences on the polity. Or perhaps, he was not up to the mark of virility required to conduct a revolution, for strange was the way in which he quit. I do not follow the conventional argument quite as afforded by him and his followers and I have no qualms about admitting it.
Santanu Mitra Sugata Bose The RK Math did not get involved in the freedom struggle for reasons that spiritual path belongs to a higher plane of existence. Sri Aurobindo, for the same reason, may have quit midway.
Sugata Bose But why get involved at all? Are we to believe then that he was initially ignorant of the higher cause of life? After all, such involvement cost the lives of several revolutionaries and the incarceration of many more including his own brother in the dreaded Cellular Jail. And once in Pondicherry, he kept on occasionally speaking about British occupation of India but not once, perhaps, about French occupation of the very place of his habitat. @ Santanu Mitra
Santanu Mitra Sugata Bose : when he got involved initially, the God realization experience was not there and his mental state made him a revolutionary, but, later, when the God realization experience came, he was in a different mental state and had become a realized soul and he acted accordingly.
Sugata Bose Fine. But do respond to my argument in my expanded comment. @ Santanu Mitra. P. S. Perhaps, I am holding you up from retiring for the night in which case please do not bother to answer any more my queries.
Santanu Mitra In a higher mental state one thinks in a different way and you can say that God takes over the individual's actions. We will ourselves have to experience that state to understand their actions. The human mind cannot comprehend divine actions as the human mind has its limitations. Only in the super conscious state these truths can be understood. God's ways are mysterious and with our limited understanding we cannot judge the actions of such perfected souls.
Sugata Bose True enough but the Pondicherry part of my question you did not cater to as to why he kept harping on British occupation of India but never French occupation of Pondicherry which was also a part of India.
Santanu Mitra On this matter, I cannot say much as I am not aware of these happenings. But, in a general way, I can say that we can find fault in Ram and Krishna also, if we critically analyse all their actions.
Sugata Bose And I look forward to the day when we start doing it in an enlightened spirit to know them better and for the cause of truth which we ought to pursue despite the pressure of personality.
Santanu Mitra Sugata Bose maybe he had a soft corner for the French.
Sugata Bose Santanu Mitra, or was it plain political expediency now, albeit, under spiritual garb, for he needed French asylum to save him from British persecution or trial, whichever way you would like to put it?
Santanu Mitra Possible.
Sugata Bose Santanu Mitra, I must say you were delightful to converse with. Look forward to future conversations as well.
Santanu Mitra Sugata Bose same here, I also enjoyed conversing with you and look forward to such interactions in future. Shubh Rathri Friend.
Sugata Bose Shubha ratri.
Sumit Chandra He was a civil rights activist.That's it.
Sugata Bose Who, Sumit?Sumit Chandra Gandhi.
Sugata Bose And Aurobindo?
Sumit Chandra Aurobindo was an intellectual, thought leader. Not a Karma Yogi. True Karma Yogi were Subhas Bose, Surya Sen, Bagha Jatin, Rashbehari Bose who actually implemented their ideas.Their goal was to drive out British from Indian soil by eroding loyalty of Indians in Brit ish Indian armed forces and they tried for it.
Sugata Bose Sumit, simply brilliant there! You have been honest in a world of pretentious people practising so-called piety, having sold their sanity to the four winds out of fear of public disapproval and censure.
Sumit Chandra Sugata BoseBose da, these are my personal opinion.People like Aurobindo were so great that I shouldn't be judging them.
Sugata Bose Sumit, do you consider Aurobindo greater than Netaji?
Sumit Chandra Sugata Bose personal opinion is no. But Aurobindo was great in his own right. His works provide intellectual light to individual truth seekers and that angle is significant too. But for liberation of Indian and the world masses from colonial exploitation and bondage there is no one greater than Subhas Bose.
Sugata Bose Strange it is that everybody faults Gandhi but nobody dares criticise Aurobindo Ghosh who literally ran away from the freedom struggle under the pretext of spiritual pursuit. I wonder why he did so if he was truly spiritual. Does cowardice have any place in spirituality? Can you quite conceive Swami Vivekananda ever doing it?
Sumit Chandra Aurobindo wasnt a freedom fighter nor was Gandhi.
Sugata Bose What do you mean, Sumit? Aurobindo Ghosh was one of the front-ranking leaders of the Indian National Congress. He belonged along with Tilak to the extremist wing of the Congress. He was the undisputed leader in Bengal and spearheaded the terrorist movement against the British there. Later, after he was incarcerated in the Alipore Central Jail in connection with the Alipore Bomb Case, he was frightened into escaping from Calcutta to Pondicherry. He did cite spiritual experiences as having been the cause but I have always had my doubts about such self-reported episodes of his. At any rate he is himself on record as having said that he was quite unnerved by his sudden incarceration initially. However, if you mean that neither truly was a revolutionary for the motherland's freedom in a strictly political-patriotic way, I can appreciate your perspective.
Sumit Chandra Sugata Bose da he was mainly the inspiration behind the revolutionary movement. But how much he was directly involved in executing the revolutionary acts I am not aware.He was a great intellectual.
Sugata Bose Sumit, he was very actively involved in the extremist politics of the day and was not merely a source of inspiration for the freedom fighters. In the early years of extreme revolutionary politics in Bengal he was the leader numero uno.
Santanu Mitra Sugata Bose The RK Math did not get involved in the freedom struggle for reasons that spiritual path belongs to a higher plane of existence. Sri Aurobindo, for the same reason, may have quit midway.
Sugata Bose But why get involved at all? Are we to believe then that he was initially ignorant of the higher cause of life? After all, such involvement cost the lives of several revolutionaries and the incarceration of many more including his own brother in the dreaded Cellular Jail. And once in Pondicherry, he kept on occasionally speaking about British occupation of India but not once, perhaps, about French occupation of the very place of his habitat. @ Santanu Mitra
Santanu Mitra Sugata Bose : when he got involved initially, the God realization experience was not there and his mental state made him a revolutionary, but, later, when the God realization experience came, he was in a different mental state and had become a realized soul and he acted accordingly.
Sugata Bose Fine. But do respond to my argument in my expanded comment. @ Santanu Mitra. P. S. Perhaps, I am holding you up from retiring for the night in which case please do not bother to answer any more my queries.
Santanu Mitra In a higher mental state one thinks in a different way and you can say that God takes over the individual's actions. We will ourselves have to experience that state to understand their actions. The human mind cannot comprehend divine actions as the human mind has its limitations. Only in the super conscious state these truths can be understood. God's ways are mysterious and with our limited understanding we cannot judge the actions of such perfected souls.
Sugata Bose True enough but the Pondicherry part of my question you did not cater to as to why he kept harping on British occupation of India but never French occupation of Pondicherry which was also a part of India.
Santanu Mitra On this matter, I cannot say much as I am not aware of these happenings. But, in a general way, I can say that we can find fault in Ram and Krishna also, if we critically analyse all their actions.
Sugata Bose And I look forward to the day when we start doing it in an enlightened spirit to know them better and for the cause of truth which we ought to pursue despite the pressure of personality.
Santanu Mitra Sugata Bose maybe he had a soft corner for the French.
Sugata Bose Santanu Mitra, or was it plain political expediency now, albeit, under spiritual garb, for he needed French asylum to save him from British persecution or trial, whichever way you would like to put it?
Santanu Mitra Possible.
Sugata Bose Santanu Mitra, I must say you were delightful to converse with. Look forward to future conversations as well.
Santanu Mitra Sugata Bose same here, I also enjoyed conversing with you and look forward to such interactions in future. Shubh Rathri Friend.
Sugata Bose Shubha ratri.
Sumit Chandra He was a civil rights activist.That's it.
Sugata Bose Who, Sumit?Sumit Chandra Gandhi.
Sugata Bose And Aurobindo?
Sumit Chandra Aurobindo was an intellectual, thought leader. Not a Karma Yogi. True Karma Yogi were Subhas Bose, Surya Sen, Bagha Jatin, Rashbehari Bose who actually implemented their ideas.Their goal was to drive out British from Indian soil by eroding loyalty of Indians in Brit ish Indian armed forces and they tried for it.
Sugata Bose Sumit, simply brilliant there! You have been honest in a world of pretentious people practising so-called piety, having sold their sanity to the four winds out of fear of public disapproval and censure.
Sumit Chandra Sugata BoseBose da, these are my personal opinion.People like Aurobindo were so great that I shouldn't be judging them.
Sugata Bose Sumit, do you consider Aurobindo greater than Netaji?
Sumit Chandra Sugata Bose personal opinion is no. But Aurobindo was great in his own right. His works provide intellectual light to individual truth seekers and that angle is significant too. But for liberation of Indian and the world masses from colonial exploitation and bondage there is no one greater than Subhas Bose.
Sugata Bose Strange it is that everybody faults Gandhi but nobody dares criticise Aurobindo Ghosh who literally ran away from the freedom struggle under the pretext of spiritual pursuit. I wonder why he did so if he was truly spiritual. Does cowardice have any place in spirituality? Can you quite conceive Swami Vivekananda ever doing it?
Sumit Chandra Aurobindo wasnt a freedom fighter nor was Gandhi.
Sugata Bose What do you mean, Sumit? Aurobindo Ghosh was one of the front-ranking leaders of the Indian National Congress. He belonged along with Tilak to the extremist wing of the Congress. He was the undisputed leader in Bengal and spearheaded the terrorist movement against the British there. Later, after he was incarcerated in the Alipore Central Jail in connection with the Alipore Bomb Case, he was frightened into escaping from Calcutta to Pondicherry. He did cite spiritual experiences as having been the cause but I have always had my doubts about such self-reported episodes of his. At any rate he is himself on record as having said that he was quite unnerved by his sudden incarceration initially. However, if you mean that neither truly was a revolutionary for the motherland's freedom in a strictly political-patriotic way, I can appreciate your perspective.
Sumit Chandra Sugata Bose da he was mainly the inspiration behind the revolutionary movement. But how much he was directly involved in executing the revolutionary acts I am not aware.He was a great intellectual.
Sugata Bose Sumit, he was very actively involved in the extremist politics of the day and was not merely a source of inspiration for the freedom fighters. In the early years of extreme revolutionary politics in Bengal he was the leader numero uno.
No comments:
Post a Comment