Wordsmith Rana Although you have stated the ultimate, i humbly add further that, an unflinching passion for an aesthetic pursuit inevitably paves the way to a pinnacle of perfection at some point in time.Sugata Bose But that sense of beauty must be innate. It is well-nigh impossible to inculcate it in any. @ Wordsmith Rana
Sugata Bose Sometimes I feel I am wasting my time in making fruitless posts when all that nterest people are good photographs of Thakur-Ma.Bruce Ananta Hilliger Easier for most to look at pics !!!Pradipa Mukherjee Not at all sir!..._ur posts are inspirational and motivating....at least for me!Wordsmith Rana Your posts are a veritable treasure-trove of spiritual/literary illumination for the present as well as for the posterity. Pls continue showering such sublime spell for the insatiably hungry audience.Debaprasad Bhattacharya কর্মন্যেবাধিকারস্তে মা ফলেষু কদাচনMalini Mukherji No sir, why do you think so! We keep reading them, learn a lot from your writeups...... My knowledge is v limited so might be that i cannot give appropriate comments. I treasure reading them. Regards.Vipin Singh Sir, please do not stop postsSugata Bose No, no, I will not, for there are readers like you who keep me going.Susan Baker No,,,not ever wasted,,just that some people are maybe unable to understand your very elevated proseSusan Baker I always read but maybe don’t feel qualified to make an Educated commentBrenda Arnold Mattox Profundity often emerges when you least expect it. Keep it up.Brenda Arnold Mattox You are a spiritual warrior who must hold the fort for righteousness, compassion ant the truth that there is only one of us here. I know it seems almost unbearable to witness the lack of these attributes by many if not most of our fellow earthlings. Innocence robbed by the constant propaganda of material items and an almost total neglect of any kind of education that would lead to critical thinking creates a societal ignorance that undermines culture, morals and community.Subhas Kumar Sinha Sir there are many avid readers of your posts which are very informative and inspiringAshoke Shil Sir ...your post always inspires me. I earnestly request you to keep posting.Swapankumar Mukherjee Your efforts for mass awareness is highIy appreciated.But the sometime subject chosen may not be Iiked by aII. Postings shouId not be stopped atIeast for section of masses. Thanks.Nilanjana Chakraborty Ebar khushi to???? Aar bhoy dekhaben na doyakore!Wordsmith Rana We always want to feel among us the most uniquely fascinating, intensely humanitarian and, above all, the intellectually encyclopaedic individual that, Mr. Sugata Bose is. Our nation ought to be proud for him. Love you, Sir.Brenda Arnold Mattox Soul Knowledge
Sugata Bose Not soul but the Self unless, of course, by the term 'soul', you mean the 'Self'.Brenda Arnold Mattox Thanks, swami. But it you want my truth, I prefer the other, for what it's worth. I would love to have an even greater knowledge of my soul than anything else.Sugata Bose And who is this 'I' that will know the soul? That, devoid of material cover, is the Self. Contaminated with material dross, it appears as the phenomenal individual.Brenda Arnold Mattox Where is the picture of the 1893 Congress in Chicago where our deeply loved Vivekananda spoke such supreme truth? I lost the picture somehow and your powerful accompanying words which I wanted to share with others. Please resend.Sugata Bose Sure.Brenda Arnold Mattox Sugata Bose Again, who "I" is remains a work in progress. Pray that the universe doesn't give up on the unending search for this knowledge of I.Sugata Bose Do you want me to re-post the write-up 'CHICAGO, A MOMENT CRYSTALLISED IN TIME'? Or am I quite mistaken and you are really addressing someone else for that?Sugata Bose Brenda Arnold Mattox, the Vedic Rishis have already solved this problem of the 'I' ages ago. It is a phenomenal myth much like the sensory universe is and is, like the soul, only apparent and not real in the ultimate sense. The Self alone is the ultimate and the only absolute Reality for it abides in the transcendence of the senses where matter, gross, subtle or causal, peeps not.Brenda Arnold Mattox WOWSugata Bose Netaji was the prophet of patriotism.Others were mere leaders,venerable though they were.But Netaji shone peerless among them all.Bhaskar Sen Sharma A great tributeAvisek Banerjee Prophet is only Gandhiji.Sugata Bose There you go with your dogmatism, Avisek Banerjee.Anjan Debnath It is absolutely foolish and ignorance to say Gandhi a prophet.Munish Kumar Great will remain great.Sugata Bose Oh, no comparisons between the two please even by way of reference. Buddha was the incarnation of God whereas Gandhiji was a mere mortal, a politician through and through. Moreover, Gandhiji never practised the absolute brahmacharya which is fundamental to Buddha's teaching. @ Manotosh BanerjeeMunish Kumar Sugata Bose ji, I never expected from you such controversial posts.Sugata Bose What type of posts would satisfy you? I post whatever comes to my mind spontaneously and I do not expect anyone to endorse or approve them. So, I am quite happy to keep writing what I think is right in my view.Munish Kumar Immature thinking. Make it wider plz.Sugata Bose Munish Kumarji, I am waiting for you to teach me.Munish Kumar Teach yourself . There is no great teacher other than your own.Sugata Bose Munish Kumarji, I thought you had lost confidence in that teacher within me and had usurped his position to henceforth enlighten me.Munish Kumar I am surprised. Do you really follow Swami Vivekananda's????Sugata Bose I appreciate your surprise. Perhaps, you should ask Swami Vivekananda himself if he thinks I follow him or not.Munish Kumar This is your bigotry to say so.Sugata Bose Oh, thank you so much for your rather kind epithet.
Munish Kumar To defeat enemy in the battlefield, we need 'josh' as well as 'hosh'.Sugata Bose Munish Kumarji, let us stick to an intelligible single language instead of mixing up tongues to create a veritable babble.Munish Kumar So we can't deny the role of Gandhi ji & Subhash Chandra Bose.Munish Kumar Both and all the other selfless revolutionaries have put their lives in the feet of Bharatmata.Sugata Bose Munish Kumarji, nobody is denying anyone anything here, not even denying you the opportunity to pull me up. The point, however, is to be pertinent to the post and not impertinent, I dare say.Munish Kumar Don't take one sided approach.Sugata Bose Munish Kumarji, no one is denying this and for you to misinterpret the text of what has been written may suit your predispositions and propensities, not mine.Munish Kumar Thanks sir. I am obliged to you. That you don't deny the role of other patriots.Sugata Bose Munish Kumarji, thanks for your kind illumination of this very significant point. I am sure I would not have remembered it had I not met you today on this comment thread and my writings would have all gone in vain. So, there you see how good a teacher you are, a true disciple of the sages and the seers who have taught us the universal approach. Am I right?Munish Kumar Let's all be unite sir for a great moral purpose.Sugata Bose Munish Kumarji, oh, when did I ever meet you and say that ever denied them? I have always only made pertinent points to keep the discussion oriented towards facts and not fiction. I hope you understand.Munish Kumar India is already divided too much on caste & creed matters. So no more dividation of national heroes plz.Sugata Bose Munish Kumarji, of course, we ought to. Come, join hands with me to project before the world all that is glorious in our culture without foolish fault-finding of others without understanding the context of what has been or is being said.Munish Kumar Ok sir ji.Munish Kumar Thank you so much.Munish Kumar & sorry for my wrong interpretation.Sugata Bose Munish Kumarji discussion of heroes ought to be based on truth and not imagination merely to vainly glorify them. Historical fidelity demands it and let us, thus, be not bigoted enough to call others bigoted without any prior understanding of their background, philosophy, attitudes and attributes. It will do you a world of good to be more measured in pulling up others off-hand without this fundamental preparedness.
Sugata Bose Rear your children to become lions among men, not effeminate souls with not a tinge of manliness in them.Soham Pain With due respect, this is a purely biased statement which glorifies manliness and looks down upon so-called feminine traits.Sugata Bose Not at all. You have not understood its import. This is Swami Vivekananda's view as well.Soham Pain I do understand it's import. And I also accept that Swamiji had similar visions. But in retrospect I can only say that 'man-making education' and 'klaibyam maasma gamah paartha' are unpleasantly androcentric.Sugata Bose Practise for a few years brahmacharya strictly before you hazard to comment on Swamiji thus.Soham Pain I am not into yoga/spirituality. I am not a practicioner, I admit. But a scholar/student also has a different kind of integrity which s/he cultivates. That integrity endows him/her with a detachment which certainly enables him/her to see Swamiji or any other personality through a demystified lens. Such a take on Swamiji is equally valid though different from a brahmcharin's approach to his teachings.Sugata Bose You write well but your understanding of Swamiji is flawed. However, keep reading him and remember that without 'shraddha' he cannot be properly comprehended.Soham Pain I do read him. And admire him. Have been reading him ever since my childhood. Never stopped.Sugata Bose Mere reading, though, is not enough. Swamiji used to say that brahmacharya is the key and cornerstone of education. Hence, without the observance of absolute physical and psychological continence one is going to be duped by delusive ideas and interpretations thereof about these seminal personalities. However, the fault is not yours entirely but the way education is conducted in India where there is hardly any access to our own culture and heritage in the absence of any scope for learning Sanskrit. But this is a typical stance though of the egotistic mind that posits opinions without going to the root of the matter and in this case I find it strange that you deliberate at length over a misconception of yours about Swamiji's idea and intent regarding 'manhood', 'masculinity' et al instead of sitting at his feet to learn and solve the riddle that you yourself are and the universe around you is. This, alas, is the plight of the intellectually impoverished masquerading as the intellectually proficient and the sooner this degeneration is addressed, the better for our benighted nation.Soham Pain Could you please explain what you mean by 'delusive'? That's a term which may have a range of meanings, and can be interpreted differently by different people. Diversity of interpretations and opinions must be accepted if one is embarking on an academic journey. Inclusivity is the hallmark of academia and also the bedrock of Swamiji's own teachings. It's stupid to dub one opinion as delusive and the other as the right one simply because the critical approaches and methodologies are different.
And I agree with you that the modern ducation system is indeed flawed. Yes, students are not opened up to our own cultural heritage. But it would perhaps only be a half-truth to put me in the same breed of students. Contrary to what you may be thinking of my upbringing, I am a product of RKM Purulia and RKM Narendrapur, where I received pretty sound lessons not only on the teachings of the Trio but also on the Bhagavadgita and the Upanishads from experienced, senior monks of the order. My love for Indian spiritual, cultural and literary heritage has been nourished with utmost care by them. Later in life, I have also studied Sanskrit, but to be honest, I can't write or speak in the language, though I can read and understand. If my morning starts with Dostoevsky then my night ends with Dandin. I am not oblivious of the depth and grandeur of my own heritage. But what I don't subscribe to is uncritical glorification. If my RKM background has taught me to pay my own heritage its due, then my post-RKM background has opened me up to the Western canon and helped me to acquire a certain emotional detachment which enables me to look at both traditions with a critical lens. I am as much aware of the greatness of Abhinavagupta as of the limitations of Aristotle as a philosopher.Sugata Bose What is the point of going on deliberating with a person who has drunk deep of the cup of desire and arrived at the wrong shore of flawed reasoning? Irreverence arises from lack of continence. P.S. You had begun this deliberation on the wrong note.Satyendra Singh Keep writing Sir..... Don't bother about anybody.....Sugata Bose Thank you, Satyendra Singhji, for your support and encouragement.Indrani Ghosh আপনি আপনার মতন করে লিখুন জয়ঠাকুরSugata Bose Thank you. May Thakur bless you!Ratan Pal You are,sir, not only a prolific writer, but also adding a new line of thinking in various perspective of life in broader spectrum, much even beyond the way many a people in modern times dare think so. It is my pleasure that i have a golden opportunity to read your write-up.Sugata Bose Thanks, Ratan, for it is readers like you, perceptive and appreciative, that keep me going in this otherwise solitary voyage of the soul.Sujoy Mukherjee I am not loud with putting likes and comments ... but silent admirer of commanding flow of thoughts. More is the irritation caused, better will be way to wake up the sleeping community.Avisek Banerjee আপনি আমাদের প্রতিমুহূর্তে সমৃদ্ধ করছেন। আমাদের কথা ভেবে লিখুন।Swami Sampurnananda There is a problem with your punctuation. I think you need to leave a space after a comma. When you don't, the sentence looks little hurried and ungainly. Perhaps if you take one or two deep breaths before hotly rushing to respond, your writings too may have more soothing spaces.Sugata Bose The punctuation part is not possible to accommodate within the finite space available in the coloured box. So far as the rest of your comment/criticism is concerned, I reject it on the basis of your flawed perception involved in it which is, of course, the inertial hangover of your past criticism with added flavour this time. I am very particular about the details of punctuation/spelling et al while writing my essays. And thank you for your wonderful sympathy for a co-writer who greatly admires your writing and seeks nourishment from your blog on the saints of the Order. @ Swami SampurnanandaSujoy Mukherjee Manoj Sivan, വിനോദ് മേനോൻ, Aparna Dutta, Madhuparna Dey Sarkar Please follow ... Sugata babu's this particular post and provide the necessary evidences of Tulasi Maharaj as the direct disciple Thakur.
N.B. Sugata Babu... I am hailing from the Thakur's family and have also come to know about Tulasi Maharaj (Swami Nirmalananda) from several documents and photographs, which depict the true fact. Its an irony the new generation has been kept in complete darkness and this is the dark side of the organization which I don't want to discuss here, being closely associated with them.Sugata Bose Are you a descendant of Sri Ramakrishna? If so, can you elaborate on your lineage for my satisfaction, if it isn't transgressing on your privacy and in case you do not take such a request on my part as an offence, that is?Sujoy Mukherjee no issues at all.. The file is attached. Though this file is an old one, relevant information may be obtained. Thanks. Manoj on the other hand has provided all the documents related to Tulsi (Tulasi ) Maharaj... Thanks to him as well.Sugata Bose Thank you for giving the genealogy. I am happy to now know someone from the family of the one who I hold as the last word in life and death and the realm beyond....Yes, Manoj has been doing yeoman's service to the cause of resurrection of the truth about Tulsi Maharaj. His dedication is literally unparalleled.William Willow Reason for non inclusion of swami nirmalananda is well-known by the belurmath authority. Mr Bose pl talk to senior maharaj you will definitely get the answer Jai thakurവിനോദ് മേനോൻ Sugata Bose, all the original Ramakrishna Vivekananda literature and photos published during the time of Direct Disciples including those written by Saradananda ( Great Master) and M very clearly says that Tulsi Maharaj was a direct disciple. Then probably in early 1950s few powerful monks in the Math started manipulating the literature and removed his name as a show of vengeance. Followers of Tulsi Maharaj, especially those in Kerala ( where Tulsi Maharj lived between 1911-12 to 1938 till his Mahasamadhi) did nothing against this criminal conspiracy. Rather the Math silenced all opponents with sweet talks. some put them blame of Thakur saying "All His Will " ...The lone crusader against this conspiracy was Shri Brahamagopal Dutta of Kiran Niketan in Bagbazar who wrote a detailed book on this conspiracy. Much water has flown under the Howrah Bridge since then. In 2008 the Chennai Math again published the corrected Gospel with the name of Swami Nirmalananda as a direct disciple but the Belur Math is still keeping silent on this issue. Many monks within the order has publicly disputed the wrong stand of the Governing body in recent times. The Math governing body also knows this but they are still living in a comfort zone of past lies and conspiracies. whatever it may be the followers of Sri Ramakrishna can follow the truth and to do that they can ignore the monks who still hold on to falsehood.Sujoy Mukherjee The power of attorney bears by far the strongest testimony to the fact discussed here. As mentioned by Vinod Menon, we have the book by Sri BrahmaGopal Dutta.. a copy of which is available in the archive.org as well.Manoj Sivan Devotees are welcome to visit the site on Swami Nirmalananda - Direct disciple of Sri Ramakrishna and download books, audio, video free of cost. Jai Sri Ramakrishna saranam. https://archive.org/details/@swami_nirmalanandaManoj Sivan Hinduism in Travancore - from 1931 Travancore census ReportAPPENDIX TO CHAPTER XI• 431. Of all modern religious movements, the Ramakrishna movement appears to have been the most successful in this State. It was started here in 1911 under the guidance of Swami Nirmalananda, a direct disciple of Sri Ramakrishna. The first Asramam was opened at Haripad in 1912, immediately followed by another at Thiruvella, the third and the most important one was established at Trivandrum in 1924, and since then eight more have been added at other centres. "The ideals of Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda," says Mr. Padmanabhan Tampi, "have permeated the masses largely in Middle Travancore where they have become almost household objects of worship, and the influence is gradually spreading. A band of local Sannyas ins and Brahmacharis in which all the communities are represented have grown up...............No distinctions of caste are observed in the Asramas and members of different castes of Malabar can be seen living as members of one happy family in these Asramas. At all important functions in these Asramas people of all castes up to the lowest Pulayas, Parayas, etc., take their food together and as the food served is invariably Prasad, orthodox Hindu doctrine also supports this practice. .....• ..Philanthropical work is also undertaken whenever necessary in a spirit of pure service, the poor and the needy being treated in a spirit of worship.... • •• • .The main object in all these Asramas is to train the Sannyasins and Brahmacharis to develop their personality and manifest the Lord within so that they could carry on the work of Swami Vivekananda for the spiritual regeneration of India.'' Swami Nirmalananda visits the Asramas in Travancore once a year, gives the necessary training to the Sannyasins and Brahmacharis and guides the healthy development of the movement.Swami Sampurnananda Swami Nirmalananda was a disciple. He can be considered as the 17th. He could be considered 14th with Akhandananda, Trigunatita & Vijnanananda coming after him. Or he could be considered 16th, treating Thakur, Ma & Swamiji as a separate group. He could be considered 18th after considering Sarada Devi ad the first disciple. Then Gauri Ma is also a monastic Disciple. We also have the case of Vaikuntanath Sanyal doing Viraja Homa at Baranagore and becoming Swami Kripananda and then later reverting to householder life. Then Wr have Shri Narayana Shastri the earliest known Sannyasin Disciple of Thakur. Have it any way you like.Swami Sampurnananda Just read Life of Sri Ramakrishna with a Foreword by Mahatma Gandhi or Lilaprasangha or Kathamrita. You will find authentic reference.
N.B. Sugata Babu... I am hailing from the Thakur's family and have also come to know about Tulasi Maharaj (Swami Nirmalananda) from several documents and photographs, which depict the true fact. Its an irony the new generation has been kept in complete darkness and this is the dark side of the organization which I don't want to discuss here, being closely associated with them.Sugata Bose Are you a descendant of Sri Ramakrishna? If so, can you elaborate on your lineage for my satisfaction, if it isn't transgressing on your privacy and in case you do not take such a request on my part as an offence, that is?Sujoy Mukherjee no issues at all.. The file is attached. Though this file is an old one, relevant information may be obtained. Thanks. Manoj on the other hand has provided all the documents related to Tulsi (Tulasi ) Maharaj... Thanks to him as well.Sugata Bose Thank you for giving the genealogy. I am happy to now know someone from the family of the one who I hold as the last word in life and death and the realm beyond....Yes, Manoj has been doing yeoman's service to the cause of resurrection of the truth about Tulsi Maharaj. His dedication is literally unparalleled.William Willow Reason for non inclusion of swami nirmalananda is well-known by the belurmath authority. Mr Bose pl talk to senior maharaj you will definitely get the answer Jai thakurവിനോദ് മേനോൻ Sugata Bose, all the original Ramakrishna Vivekananda literature and photos published during the time of Direct Disciples including those written by Saradananda ( Great Master) and M very clearly says that Tulsi Maharaj was a direct disciple. Then probably in early 1950s few powerful monks in the Math started manipulating the literature and removed his name as a show of vengeance. Followers of Tulsi Maharaj, especially those in Kerala ( where Tulsi Maharj lived between 1911-12 to 1938 till his Mahasamadhi) did nothing against this criminal conspiracy. Rather the Math silenced all opponents with sweet talks. some put them blame of Thakur saying "All His Will " ...The lone crusader against this conspiracy was Shri Brahamagopal Dutta of Kiran Niketan in Bagbazar who wrote a detailed book on this conspiracy. Much water has flown under the Howrah Bridge since then. In 2008 the Chennai Math again published the corrected Gospel with the name of Swami Nirmalananda as a direct disciple but the Belur Math is still keeping silent on this issue. Many monks within the order has publicly disputed the wrong stand of the Governing body in recent times. The Math governing body also knows this but they are still living in a comfort zone of past lies and conspiracies. whatever it may be the followers of Sri Ramakrishna can follow the truth and to do that they can ignore the monks who still hold on to falsehood.Sujoy Mukherjee The power of attorney bears by far the strongest testimony to the fact discussed here. As mentioned by Vinod Menon, we have the book by Sri BrahmaGopal Dutta.. a copy of which is available in the archive.org as well.Manoj Sivan Devotees are welcome to visit the site on Swami Nirmalananda - Direct disciple of Sri Ramakrishna and download books, audio, video free of cost. Jai Sri Ramakrishna saranam. https://archive.org/details/@swami_nirmalanandaManoj Sivan Hinduism in Travancore - from 1931 Travancore census ReportAPPENDIX TO CHAPTER XI• 431. Of all modern religious movements, the Ramakrishna movement appears to have been the most successful in this State. It was started here in 1911 under the guidance of Swami Nirmalananda, a direct disciple of Sri Ramakrishna. The first Asramam was opened at Haripad in 1912, immediately followed by another at Thiruvella, the third and the most important one was established at Trivandrum in 1924, and since then eight more have been added at other centres. "The ideals of Sri Ramakrishna and Swami Vivekananda," says Mr. Padmanabhan Tampi, "have permeated the masses largely in Middle Travancore where they have become almost household objects of worship, and the influence is gradually spreading. A band of local Sannyas ins and Brahmacharis in which all the communities are represented have grown up...............No distinctions of caste are observed in the Asramas and members of different castes of Malabar can be seen living as members of one happy family in these Asramas. At all important functions in these Asramas people of all castes up to the lowest Pulayas, Parayas, etc., take their food together and as the food served is invariably Prasad, orthodox Hindu doctrine also supports this practice. .....• ..Philanthropical work is also undertaken whenever necessary in a spirit of pure service, the poor and the needy being treated in a spirit of worship.... • •• • .The main object in all these Asramas is to train the Sannyasins and Brahmacharis to develop their personality and manifest the Lord within so that they could carry on the work of Swami Vivekananda for the spiritual regeneration of India.'' Swami Nirmalananda visits the Asramas in Travancore once a year, gives the necessary training to the Sannyasins and Brahmacharis and guides the healthy development of the movement.Swami Sampurnananda Swami Nirmalananda was a disciple. He can be considered as the 17th. He could be considered 14th with Akhandananda, Trigunatita & Vijnanananda coming after him. Or he could be considered 16th, treating Thakur, Ma & Swamiji as a separate group. He could be considered 18th after considering Sarada Devi ad the first disciple. Then Gauri Ma is also a monastic Disciple. We also have the case of Vaikuntanath Sanyal doing Viraja Homa at Baranagore and becoming Swami Kripananda and then later reverting to householder life. Then Wr have Shri Narayana Shastri the earliest known Sannyasin Disciple of Thakur. Have it any way you like.Swami Sampurnananda Just read Life of Sri Ramakrishna with a Foreword by Mahatma Gandhi or Lilaprasangha or Kathamrita. You will find authentic reference.
Mk Biswas THIS TYPE OF QUESTION IS TO CREATE CONFUSION. ONE SHOULD NOT ASK THIS TYPE OF QUESTION. WHAT DIFFERENCE IT WILL MAKE IF HE WAS A MONK OR A HOUSE HOLDER? WE DO NOT LIKE TO DEVELOP WE ONLY WANT CRITICISM. IF I ASK IF THAKUR RAMAKRISHNA WAS A MAN OR A WOMAN? DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE?Sugata Bose Your impertinence is unwarranted on my profile. Your confusion is self-created and not induced by my post. If you feel uncomfortable in facing intellectual propositions as I have set and will continue to set, stay away from my profile. Thank you and tosum it up, your suggestions, wholly unseemly in character and out of place here, will be better located on your self-profile or wherever such are entertained, but not here, for they are inappropriate as I have said. Also, the last peculiar interrogative proposition as to whether Sri Ramakrishna was a man or a woman is suggestive of your utter lack of decorum in discourse and, I dare say, reverence for the Master as well. @ Mk BiswasNish Ahuja Sugata Bose Sir it's a very rude reply. In Bhakti only humility. RAMAKRISHNA was a Bhakt, a Seer.We mortals cannot comment on enlightened Souls, We are attached to sheer desires, mundane wants.Sugata Bose Nish Ahuja, you had better followed the drift of the comment. Rudeness is in your misapprehension and retort thereby. If you cannot appreciate a stimulating question intended to trigger thought on a universally contentious issue and proceed to jump into the bandwagon of the comment thread with little understanding as to what is going on in some people's minds when they indulge in open offence, it is better that you, too, refrain from such an exercise in futility.Nish Ahuja Don't bother those "some people" bhakti is total surrender, no stimulants needed. I don't need any further reply. If one doesn't surrender to the existence or the almighty or माँ काली, there is no hope. Arguments are just intellectual itch. You just be Love, and be Love, compassionate to even those "some people" Maa Kaali will take care of them. You are disturbing your own peace, you deserve peace, forget those "some people".Sugata Bose Appreciate your sentiment for they are fraught with wisdom.Mk Biswas Very nice, Thakur Ramakrishna is at the state of super consciousness. He is beyond all debate, if any body have any doubt should refrain from arguing in public. Must concentrate on meditation and should pray in front of Thakur to give him pleasure of mind. Mr Basu can not create confusion and can not hamper the believe of the devoties by uttering such argumental words. I am a devotee of Thakur and Mr Basu have no write to bring such a sensitive argument in public and I am advising him not to show such angerness. Angery mind never can reach the spiritual state. He is in the mood to expell me from his facebook, but I ask him to refrain from bringing in public such material topics to disturb the mind of believer of Thakur. I am regular reader of his articles about Netaji, I appreciate all. But he should not try to enter in the spiritual world. Thank you Mr BoseSugata Bose You are a strange custodian of the spiritual kingdom of Thakur. But you are my brother and I appreciate your love for Thakur. However, I must say you are entirely mistaken about my intentions in so far as this post is concerned. May Thakur give you clarity of perception and sanity in judgement! Brother, stay well and keep reading and loving Thakur.
Sugata Bose But then why is Swami Nirmalananda not officially recognised as Thakur's direct disciple anymore, for even in the room of President Maharaj at Belur Math, his photograph is absent among those of the other direct disciples, now numbering 16? Swami Chetanananda in his 'God Lived With Them' also lists Thakur's direct disciples as 16 and leaves Swami Nirmalananda out. Surely, there must be some reason for this conspicuous omission? Also, why in countless references in lectures and articles delivered and written by monks of the Order consistently this position is maintained that Thakur had but 16 direct disciples among whom Nirmalanandaji's name does not figure? If the 'shruti' must prevail over the 'smriti' as you so aptly put it, why this reluctance of the Mission monks to clear the air once and for all and categorically affirm that Swami Nirmalananda was a direct disciple of Thakur about which there cannot be a shred of doubt? Why this refusal by the Mission itself to abide by the 'shruti' for all practical purposes as well regarding this issue and not make an open declaration that Swami Nirmalananda was a direct disciple of Thakur and settle the matter once and for all? It will do history a world of good, for this is a serious issue related to the one (Sri Ramakrishna) who was preeminently the embodiment of Truth, and will only be in keeping with the otherwise glorious spiritual tradition of the Ramakrishna Order. Devotees, now much confounded, may come to light thus, and you cannot argue that all will have to wade through authentic Ramakrishna literature amidst a mass of less authentic ones propagated by the Mission itself and promoting the counter-theory about the disciple issue, and filter their understanding to be able to come to the truth about this matter. It is a horrendous proposition that one is expected to go through copious literature simply to arrive at the knowledge as to who the direct disciples of Thakur were, for otherwise one is culpable to be misled into the gathering of false fact about the same. Surely, the Mission owes it to its devotees and to the world at large to clearly articulate this truth about Swami Nirmalananda's direct discipleship in no uncertain terms. In that will be maintenance of the truthfulness which was so dear to the Master, a trait which he had said was the austerity of the Age. I await your response reverently. @ Swami SampurnanandaAlok N Chattopadhyaya In fact, none was formally initiated by SriRamakrishna. Direct disciples were initiated by touching either by tongue, body or chest etc . or were asked to pronounce particular name regularly. So what we mean actually formal initiation these were not like that.Swami Nirmalanandaji at Balaram Mandir saw Sri Ramakrishna and Thakur watched him for a couple of minutes, that you may call it initiation.Swami Sampurnananda touching by tongue etc are also formal initiation if it is accompanied transfer of spirituality. There are initiation like Shambhavi, etc. In the book by Brahmagopal Dutta it us mentioned that Nirmalananda ji underwent such an initiation.Swami Sampurnananda It is mentioned that Swamiji was given Rama Mantra by Sri Ramakrishna. The very fact that Yogin was not initiated by Sri Ramakrishna very clearly implies that others were initiated by him.Manoj Sivan Swami Nirmalananda (Tulasi Maharaj ) on his Association with Sri RamakrishnaThe Swami was in the Ramakrishna Sevashrama, Benares, on the 25th February 1928 Swamis Viswarupananda, Heerananda and several others were present. In the course of conversation Swamiji said that he was brought up in Benares during his early years. "If so" he was then asked, "how did you get the opportunity to meet Sri Ramakrishna or Swami Vivekananda". In answer to them the Swami narrated the above incidents with very little variation and said that he said so much because "fables are gaining currency even while we are still alive". That day's conversation recorded by those present will be found published elsewhere.
After the first meeting, as above described, he used to go to the Kali Temple now and then, sometimes with Hari Maharaj (Swami Turiyananda) and sometimes alone. "After a few visits" said Swamiji at a later date" I was fortunate enough to be blessed with initiation or "upadesa" by him. When he used to come to Balaram Babu's house I would go and meet him. When he was lying ill at Cossipore I used to go there also. On hearing one afternoon the news of his Mahasamadhi the previous night, I went to the Cossipore garden. I bowed down to his form for the last time and placed my head on his feet. Then I returned home from the cremation ground at about 10 P.M."
Thus from about the year 1882 when Tulasi was about 18 years of age, till the Mahasamadhi of the Master in 1886 for nearly 5 years he had the good fortune and the privilege of associating with him, serving him and receiving his Divine grace.
Further details of his visit to his Master and of his association with his gurubhais during this period must, henceforth for ever remain unknown. Their precious memories have all been lost to us with the passing away of one and all of them. The solitary figure who has had access to some information on those points – Srijut Mahendranath Dutt, the revered brother of Swami Vivekananda – is, he regrets, too unwell to give those details. Although he was not as regular a visitor to Dakshineswar as some of his other gurubhais and although he was not one of the twelve who served the Master day and night at Cossipore, yet that he had Become one of the inner circle and that making his Master, the polestar and refuge of his life he was doing tapasya at home is clear beyond all doubts. Speaking of the twelve, the revered author of Leelaprasanga – Swami Saradanandaji Maharaj says¶ "To satisfy the curiosity of the readers the names of these twelve young men are given below. Norendra, Rakhal, Babiiram, Niranjan, Yogin, Latu, Tarak, Gopal Seniur, Kali, Sasi, Sarat and Gopal Junior, Sarad on account of the persecution of his father used to come now and then and to stay for a day or two. * * * Hari, Gangadhar and Tulasi would come at intervals and practised Tapasya at home."§ All the above were bound together by their common love and devotion to their Master, all were dedicated to him and all were destined to merge their entire selves in that supreme personality and to re-appear as so many of its facets.
Swami Abhedanandaji writes as follows in his Gospel of Ramakrishna (1907) as well as in the revised edition of that book published in 1939 under the title "Memoirs of Ramakrishna" "Among these were a few more devoted ones, like Sarad, Hari, Gangadhar, Subodh, Tulsi, who, afterwards joined the order and were known as Trigunatita, Turiyananda, Akhandananda Subodhananda and Nirmalananda. Bhagavan Ramakrishna received them all with equal kindness and was ever ready to help them."
Source - Swami Nirmalananda - His life and Teachings- Chapter IIISwami Sampurnananda Thakur + Ma + Swamiji + 16 disciples is how our 'Shrutis' have it. The present editions of Leelaprasangha and the Life of Sri Ramakrishna with a Foreword by Mahatma Gandhi have it. Present editions of some other books too implies it. Earlier editions of Gospel have it. Abhedanandaji's book has it. Life of Swami Nirmalananda published under the sanction of Belur Math has it. I like to study Shruti. I like Smritis too when they support the Shruti and embellish it. Devotees are free to have their preferences. I would like to go by available authentic evidences and thoughts based on such truths. Truth is the greatest and the ultimate authority. Jai Ramakrishna Jai Ma Jai Ramakrishna Sangha ....Dhananjay Mehta Why such discussion? Let us keep Sri Thakur, Sri Ma and Swamiji at the focus point of all our activities.Sugata Bose Discussions are always good. They keep the discourse alive. Even Sri Ramakrishna used to ask his devotees and disciples to engage in such debates and discussions. Once when Ramchandra Datta objected to one such debate that was taking place in front of Thakur, the Master checked him saying that such discussions and debates were necessary. So, your objection is untenable. @ Dhananjay MehtaSwami Sampurnananda There need be no such poll. It is well known that Swami Nirmalananda was a disciple of Sri Ramakrishna. It is better to discuss his life and teachings than trying to prove so obvious a truth. Study of his Life will do a world of good.Andrew Oliver What’s the word that is translated as rascal? One Swami said that it wasn’t a very good translation.Bruce Ananta Hilliger Something like shalla, forget.. Sugata Bose? do you know?Sugata Bose 'Shaalaa' as used by Sri Ramakrishna is a Bengali word which literally means 'brother-in-law' (wife's brother) and is an endearing way of expressing minor frustration, amusement or amazement. Its translation to the English word 'rascal' is completely inaccurate and robs it of the Bengali flavour in usage. The correct English word ought to be 'fellow'. @ Bruce Ananta HilligerBruce Ananta Hilliger Thanks, Sugata Bose, I remember Swami Bhashyananda always using this word, in reference to Sri R's use of it, with a funny inflection/emotion to it.Andrew Oliver Interesting! Thanks! I take it that the Bengali word doesn’t have the vulgar connotation that that word has in Hindi? Maybe Bengalis have fewer hang ups about brothers in law than Hindi speakers do.Sugata Bose Andrew, in Bengali the word 'shaalaa', as I have said, is an endearing address and has no vulgar connotation of any form whatsoever.Bruce Ananta Hilliger Sugata Bose So then in what context is the word "rascal" used as above stated? "One day I asked him: "Sir, why do you use that word "rascal" to some people who come here?" He replied: "You see, some of these people come here out of curiosity and they disturb me. How many people sincerely want to hear about God? They hear what I say through one ear, and it goes out through the other. So I use that word to test their sincerity". ..."Sugata Bose I need to get the exact text of 'The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna' where this conversation is taking place --- that is, if at all it is a passage from the Gospel --- to be able to locate the passage in the Bengali original 'Sri Sri Ramakrishna Kathamrita' before I am able to comment on the exact usage of this word. @ Bruce Ananta HilligerSugata Bose We talk a lot. What we need is seriousness, belief in what we say and more of action to back up words. Mere talk is fruitless.Pradipa Mukherjee Exactly.... You've uttered the words within me. Although after a very long time...I hv joined many groups aiming something fruitful but to my despair hv seen individual competition of the better rendering of English has taken the place of a debate/discussion....So here I would lyk 2 suggest that let r mothertounge Bengali take the place of English... Only then sumthing better can b hoped 4!!
Sugata Bose It indeed is a sad state of affairs, Pradipa. Now what to do? One contributes one's wee bit and expects others to do the same, but, alas, one is frustrated to find that such a thing does not easily come to pass. Then one is resigned to self-output as far as possible and hopes for the best to come forth out of it. So far as language is concerned, yes, it is better to write in Bengali for it attracts a wider audience but my desktop computer does not have that facility and writing from the mobile is more cumbersome a and a much slower process. Hence, English remains my lingua franca on facebook.Pradipa Mukherjee Thank u, sir...Bengali is preferable not for the wider audience but to stop the individual English essay competition... Its a shame for us that we boast being informed of English... But as its r shame using Bengali, the competition (essay) will cease, some fruits may b yielded, some light may b thrown in the darkest corners...as a result nobody would b compelled 2 leave a group out of frustration (like me)....that's wht I mean 2 say, sir!Sugata Bose But why bother? You can always do good work on your own in your own way. So, how does the stated supposed competition of sorts matter? Let detractors speak what they will, you go your way, nonetheless. After all, work for the common weal ever attracts criticism, nay, even outright persecution. I am not quite clear in my understanding of your stated case, though, and, so, cannot quite formulate my solution to it, that is, if any at all is needed. So far as the mother tongue is concerned, well, there are quite a few that will have to be considered for all owing to India's tremendous linguistic diversity. Bengali is the mother tongue of both you and me. I sometimes take the pleasure of laboriously typing out Bengali write-ups on my mobile phone and invariably get a better response from my Bengali readers. However, to even imperfectly address your question about the stated 'writing competition', even the use of Bengali as the vehicle of expression may not be able to stop it. I am a bit confused about your specific problem as such and, thus, cannot quite answer you any better than what I have done. May God bless you, Pradipa Mukherjee!Pradipa Mukherjee Thank u, sir.
Sugata Bose But then why is Swami Nirmalananda not officially recognised as Thakur's direct disciple anymore, for even in the room of President Maharaj at Belur Math, his photograph is absent among those of the other direct disciples, now numbering 16? Swami Chetanananda in his 'God Lived With Them' also lists Thakur's direct disciples as 16 and leaves Swami Nirmalananda out. Surely, there must be some reason for this conspicuous omission? Also, why in countless references in lectures and articles delivered and written by monks of the Order consistently this position is maintained that Thakur had but 16 direct disciples among whom Nirmalanandaji's name does not figure? If the 'shruti' must prevail over the 'smriti' as you so aptly put it, why this reluctance of the Mission monks to clear the air once and for all and categorically affirm that Swami Nirmalananda was a direct disciple of Thakur about which there cannot be a shred of doubt? Why this refusal by the Mission itself to abide by the 'shruti' for all practical purposes as well regarding this issue and not make an open declaration that Swami Nirmalananda was a direct disciple of Thakur and settle the matter once and for all? It will do history a world of good, for this is a serious issue related to the one (Sri Ramakrishna) who was preeminently the embodiment of Truth, and will only be in keeping with the otherwise glorious spiritual tradition of the Ramakrishna Order. Devotees, now much confounded, may come to light thus, and you cannot argue that all will have to wade through authentic Ramakrishna literature amidst a mass of less authentic ones propagated by the Mission itself and promoting the counter-theory about the disciple issue, and filter their understanding to be able to come to the truth about this matter. It is a horrendous proposition that one is expected to go through copious literature simply to arrive at the knowledge as to who the direct disciples of Thakur were, for otherwise one is culpable to be misled into the gathering of false fact about the same. Surely, the Mission owes it to its devotees and to the world at large to clearly articulate this truth about Swami Nirmalananda's direct discipleship in no uncertain terms. In that will be maintenance of the truthfulness which was so dear to the Master, a trait which he had said was the austerity of the Age. I await your response reverently. @ Swami SampurnanandaAlok N Chattopadhyaya In fact, none was formally initiated by SriRamakrishna. Direct disciples were initiated by touching either by tongue, body or chest etc . or were asked to pronounce particular name regularly. So what we mean actually formal initiation these were not like that.Swami Nirmalanandaji at Balaram Mandir saw Sri Ramakrishna and Thakur watched him for a couple of minutes, that you may call it initiation.Swami Sampurnananda touching by tongue etc are also formal initiation if it is accompanied transfer of spirituality. There are initiation like Shambhavi, etc. In the book by Brahmagopal Dutta it us mentioned that Nirmalananda ji underwent such an initiation.Swami Sampurnananda It is mentioned that Swamiji was given Rama Mantra by Sri Ramakrishna. The very fact that Yogin was not initiated by Sri Ramakrishna very clearly implies that others were initiated by him.Manoj Sivan Swami Nirmalananda (Tulasi Maharaj ) on his Association with Sri RamakrishnaThe Swami was in the Ramakrishna Sevashrama, Benares, on the 25th February 1928 Swamis Viswarupananda, Heerananda and several others were present. In the course of conversation Swamiji said that he was brought up in Benares during his early years. "If so" he was then asked, "how did you get the opportunity to meet Sri Ramakrishna or Swami Vivekananda". In answer to them the Swami narrated the above incidents with very little variation and said that he said so much because "fables are gaining currency even while we are still alive". That day's conversation recorded by those present will be found published elsewhere.
After the first meeting, as above described, he used to go to the Kali Temple now and then, sometimes with Hari Maharaj (Swami Turiyananda) and sometimes alone. "After a few visits" said Swamiji at a later date" I was fortunate enough to be blessed with initiation or "upadesa" by him. When he used to come to Balaram Babu's house I would go and meet him. When he was lying ill at Cossipore I used to go there also. On hearing one afternoon the news of his Mahasamadhi the previous night, I went to the Cossipore garden. I bowed down to his form for the last time and placed my head on his feet. Then I returned home from the cremation ground at about 10 P.M."
Thus from about the year 1882 when Tulasi was about 18 years of age, till the Mahasamadhi of the Master in 1886 for nearly 5 years he had the good fortune and the privilege of associating with him, serving him and receiving his Divine grace.
Further details of his visit to his Master and of his association with his gurubhais during this period must, henceforth for ever remain unknown. Their precious memories have all been lost to us with the passing away of one and all of them. The solitary figure who has had access to some information on those points – Srijut Mahendranath Dutt, the revered brother of Swami Vivekananda – is, he regrets, too unwell to give those details. Although he was not as regular a visitor to Dakshineswar as some of his other gurubhais and although he was not one of the twelve who served the Master day and night at Cossipore, yet that he had Become one of the inner circle and that making his Master, the polestar and refuge of his life he was doing tapasya at home is clear beyond all doubts. Speaking of the twelve, the revered author of Leelaprasanga – Swami Saradanandaji Maharaj says¶ "To satisfy the curiosity of the readers the names of these twelve young men are given below. Norendra, Rakhal, Babiiram, Niranjan, Yogin, Latu, Tarak, Gopal Seniur, Kali, Sasi, Sarat and Gopal Junior, Sarad on account of the persecution of his father used to come now and then and to stay for a day or two. * * * Hari, Gangadhar and Tulasi would come at intervals and practised Tapasya at home."§ All the above were bound together by their common love and devotion to their Master, all were dedicated to him and all were destined to merge their entire selves in that supreme personality and to re-appear as so many of its facets.
Swami Abhedanandaji writes as follows in his Gospel of Ramakrishna (1907) as well as in the revised edition of that book published in 1939 under the title "Memoirs of Ramakrishna" "Among these were a few more devoted ones, like Sarad, Hari, Gangadhar, Subodh, Tulsi, who, afterwards joined the order and were known as Trigunatita, Turiyananda, Akhandananda Subodhananda and Nirmalananda. Bhagavan Ramakrishna received them all with equal kindness and was ever ready to help them."
Source - Swami Nirmalananda - His life and Teachings- Chapter IIISwami Sampurnananda Thakur + Ma + Swamiji + 16 disciples is how our 'Shrutis' have it. The present editions of Leelaprasangha and the Life of Sri Ramakrishna with a Foreword by Mahatma Gandhi have it. Present editions of some other books too implies it. Earlier editions of Gospel have it. Abhedanandaji's book has it. Life of Swami Nirmalananda published under the sanction of Belur Math has it. I like to study Shruti. I like Smritis too when they support the Shruti and embellish it. Devotees are free to have their preferences. I would like to go by available authentic evidences and thoughts based on such truths. Truth is the greatest and the ultimate authority. Jai Ramakrishna Jai Ma Jai Ramakrishna Sangha ....Dhananjay Mehta Why such discussion? Let us keep Sri Thakur, Sri Ma and Swamiji at the focus point of all our activities.Sugata Bose Discussions are always good. They keep the discourse alive. Even Sri Ramakrishna used to ask his devotees and disciples to engage in such debates and discussions. Once when Ramchandra Datta objected to one such debate that was taking place in front of Thakur, the Master checked him saying that such discussions and debates were necessary. So, your objection is untenable. @ Dhananjay MehtaSwami Sampurnananda There need be no such poll. It is well known that Swami Nirmalananda was a disciple of Sri Ramakrishna. It is better to discuss his life and teachings than trying to prove so obvious a truth. Study of his Life will do a world of good.Andrew Oliver What’s the word that is translated as rascal? One Swami said that it wasn’t a very good translation.Bruce Ananta Hilliger Something like shalla, forget.. Sugata Bose? do you know?Sugata Bose 'Shaalaa' as used by Sri Ramakrishna is a Bengali word which literally means 'brother-in-law' (wife's brother) and is an endearing way of expressing minor frustration, amusement or amazement. Its translation to the English word 'rascal' is completely inaccurate and robs it of the Bengali flavour in usage. The correct English word ought to be 'fellow'. @ Bruce Ananta HilligerBruce Ananta Hilliger Thanks, Sugata Bose, I remember Swami Bhashyananda always using this word, in reference to Sri R's use of it, with a funny inflection/emotion to it.Andrew Oliver Interesting! Thanks! I take it that the Bengali word doesn’t have the vulgar connotation that that word has in Hindi? Maybe Bengalis have fewer hang ups about brothers in law than Hindi speakers do.Sugata Bose Andrew, in Bengali the word 'shaalaa', as I have said, is an endearing address and has no vulgar connotation of any form whatsoever.Bruce Ananta Hilliger Sugata Bose So then in what context is the word "rascal" used as above stated? "One day I asked him: "Sir, why do you use that word "rascal" to some people who come here?" He replied: "You see, some of these people come here out of curiosity and they disturb me. How many people sincerely want to hear about God? They hear what I say through one ear, and it goes out through the other. So I use that word to test their sincerity". ..."Sugata Bose I need to get the exact text of 'The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna' where this conversation is taking place --- that is, if at all it is a passage from the Gospel --- to be able to locate the passage in the Bengali original 'Sri Sri Ramakrishna Kathamrita' before I am able to comment on the exact usage of this word. @ Bruce Ananta HilligerSugata Bose We talk a lot. What we need is seriousness, belief in what we say and more of action to back up words. Mere talk is fruitless.Pradipa Mukherjee Exactly.... You've uttered the words within me. Although after a very long time...I hv joined many groups aiming something fruitful but to my despair hv seen individual competition of the better rendering of English has taken the place of a debate/discussion....So here I would lyk 2 suggest that let r mothertounge Bengali take the place of English... Only then sumthing better can b hoped 4!!
Sugata Bose It indeed is a sad state of affairs, Pradipa. Now what to do? One contributes one's wee bit and expects others to do the same, but, alas, one is frustrated to find that such a thing does not easily come to pass. Then one is resigned to self-output as far as possible and hopes for the best to come forth out of it. So far as language is concerned, yes, it is better to write in Bengali for it attracts a wider audience but my desktop computer does not have that facility and writing from the mobile is more cumbersome a and a much slower process. Hence, English remains my lingua franca on facebook.Pradipa Mukherjee Thank u, sir...Bengali is preferable not for the wider audience but to stop the individual English essay competition... Its a shame for us that we boast being informed of English... But as its r shame using Bengali, the competition (essay) will cease, some fruits may b yielded, some light may b thrown in the darkest corners...as a result nobody would b compelled 2 leave a group out of frustration (like me)....that's wht I mean 2 say, sir!Sugata Bose But why bother? You can always do good work on your own in your own way. So, how does the stated supposed competition of sorts matter? Let detractors speak what they will, you go your way, nonetheless. After all, work for the common weal ever attracts criticism, nay, even outright persecution. I am not quite clear in my understanding of your stated case, though, and, so, cannot quite formulate my solution to it, that is, if any at all is needed. So far as the mother tongue is concerned, well, there are quite a few that will have to be considered for all owing to India's tremendous linguistic diversity. Bengali is the mother tongue of both you and me. I sometimes take the pleasure of laboriously typing out Bengali write-ups on my mobile phone and invariably get a better response from my Bengali readers. However, to even imperfectly address your question about the stated 'writing competition', even the use of Bengali as the vehicle of expression may not be able to stop it. I am a bit confused about your specific problem as such and, thus, cannot quite answer you any better than what I have done. May God bless you, Pradipa Mukherjee!Pradipa Mukherjee Thank u, sir.
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