COMMENTS GALORE ... 29

COMMENTS GALORE ... 29

Sugata Bose @Dhyan Maneesha : Sri Ramakrishna says so. ['Jawto mawt tawto pawth.'] But I do not accept this teaching toto. I have my due reservations in consonance with historical and theological realities. I have earlier written at length on it.

Sugata Bose @Jarvis : Yes, Prabhupada was narrow and fanatical, albeit physically non-violent.

Sugata Bose @Vivek Roy : I am learning about them (ISKCON) more and more and oscillating in my views. Overall, a bleak picture as the organisation's founder has fed superstition and archaic, unhistorical, nonsensical stuff in its foundational theological structure which has weakened it considerably and which does not augur well for its future. The Vedic culture has been simplified into the puerile play of children which is why it has caught the imagination of the commoner and ensured in the process the wide propagation of the Sanatan Dharma and culture in the world, especially in the West. Overall, the organisation is a mixed baggage of devotion and commerce with each taking precedence over the other in phases. But ISKCON has aggressively propagated their creed which Swamiji in a universal sense had wanted his own followers to do in regard to the Sanatan Dharma with real missionary zeal which they patently failed to carry out in the wide world despite rendering seminal service to humanity and the Dharma otherwise. 🕉

Sugata Bose @Vivek Roy : Sorry for deleting the comment stream started by you, asking me a question. I wished to edit my comment but apparently, owing to some technical glitch, it became impossible to do so. Hence, I was forced to resort to the above measure but have posted my response to your question in its edited form as desired by me. Your question was as to what I felt overall about the community that ISKCON represents. And I have provided the answer above. Please peruse through it and be gracious enough to excuse me on my compulsion to delete the comment stream initiated by you for the aforementioned reason. 🕉

Sugata Bose @Sanjay Ghosh : Diving into the depth of the Atman, no way a precipitous fall into the ocean of ignorance.

Sugata Bose @Sanjay Ghosh: True enough. Then you ought to be civil in your expression as well as a decent human being. What sort of decency inspires you to say that you have used books related to Ramakrishna-Vivekananda or those published by the Ramakrishna Mission, whichever way it may be, as tissue paper after reading them? That does not become one versed in the Vedic tradition that honours literature itself, if even 'aparaa', as you may be holding Ramakrishna-Vivekananda literature to be, as veritable manifestation of the work of Mother Sarasvati. The dialogic process need not degenerate so. 🕉

Sugata Bose @Shusobhan Charit : Let the discussion continue but along civil terms. Else, perceptive readers will lose interest in a foul-mouthing discourse.

Sugata Bose @Pradip Roy : Nowadays, Ramakrishna Mission is also bent on building temples and monks' quarters everywhere. Perhaps, organisational expansion deems it necessary as also a share in the commercial market related to religion. In his lecture entitled 'Is Vedanta the Future Religion?' delivered in San Francisco in 1900, Swami Vivekananda had critically highlighted this propensity of the Hindus to build temples everywhere when there was already a surfeit of temples in the land. He had caustically said that fools dig wells for water while abiding by the bank of the Ganga. So, you see this commercial content of current spirituality seems to be going against the grain of what Sri Ramakrishna taught through his celebrated dictum 'Taka mati mati taka' ('Money is soil, soil money'). But then who cares for his dictum after all in this age when the dollar dominates even devotion and devas (gods) dictate discourse through deviously demanding donation even if money that is soil soils their spiritual aspirations, now supplanted by material craving? 🕉

Sugata Bose @Swati Mukherjee : Continue to support the cause I espouse with your perceptive comments. They help indeed in integrating society, what is Sanskrit is called 'lokasangrahaarthham', that is, work done with the object of gathering in people and directing them unto a higher destination.

Sugata Bose @Prasenjit Biswas : Yes, Vivekananda who had carried the Vedanta to the West had not been much appreciated by the Bengali intelligentsia and the leading lights of the day. But Prabhupada did not carry the Vedanta to the West as such. He was a Vaishnav who preached Krishna-bhakti there and with significant success but could not make much headway in Bengal because of his poor intellectual capacity. The Bengali is sharp and will not be easily taken in by irrational stuff spoken in indecent language as Prabhupada was wont to doing in regard to his propagated philosophy and with respect to the erstwhile greats of Bengal like Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Aurobindo and the like.

Sugata Bose @Prasenjit Biswas : Yes, Vivekananda who had carried the Vedanta to the West had not been much appreciated or honoured by the Bengali intelligentsia and the leading lights of the day. But Prabhupada did not carry the Vedanta to the West as such. He was a Vaishnav who preached Krishna-bhakti there and with significant success but could not make much headway in Bengal because of his poor intellectual capacity. The Bengali is sharp and will not be easily taken in by irrational stuff spoken in indecent language as Prabhupada was wont to doing in regard to his propagated philosophy and with respect to the erstwhile greats of Bengal like Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Aurobindo and the like. But, nonetheless, he did yeoman service to Hinduism by making the Shreemad Bhagavad Geeta and the Shreemad Bhagavatam well known in the West, by spreading a sort of Vedic way of living in the world, by making Shree Krishna the God of millions and, so, endearing millions in turn to India, for which we ought to be grateful and not be unduly deriding him. But the vicious statements he has made about our spiritual and national icons, the indecent language he has used therein and the disgusting remarks he has made about women have naturally drawn sharp criticism in return for which his vile thoughts and vicious tongue ought to be blamed. Surely, such viciousness of thought and speech does not go hand in hand with Krishna-bhakti, nor does it resonate to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's teaching which goes thus:

'Trinaadapi suneechena tarorapi sahishnuna

Amaanina maanadena kirtaniya sada Hare.'

Translation: 'Be in humility as low as the grass, in forbearance as patient as the tree, and bestow honour upon the insignificant ones while ever singing the glory of the Lord.' 🕉 

Sugata Bose @Sanjay Ghosh : I request you not to abuse. Using abusive language cannot be the way of discourse in any comment stream. But frequently that is what we observe. Let civility in conversation prevail. Disagreement between two individuals need not degenerate to disagreeble use of language. There are umpteen words available in any language which may be used to express one's disagreement with another in a civil way. So, please refrain from the use of foul language and, worse still, harbouring foul sentiment about a fellow human being. Devotion to Krishna demands it. Is that not so, my good friend? 🕉

Sugata Bose @Bhaskar Nath : Well, what Prabhupada says is patently unhistorical.

Sugata Bose @Jisnu Bhattacharya : Read all my posts and rephrase your question.

Sugata Bose @Mohan Halder : Is Srila Prabhupada a true devotee of Shree Krishna in your estimation? He has verbally abused Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, Gandhiji, Swami Chinmayananda, the Ramakrishna Mission monks, using words such as 'rascal', 'animal', 'cheat', and has said that Sri Ramakrishna had so abused many women in his premarital days that he had become impotent post-marriage which compelled him to pretend continence (brahmacharya) and address his duly wedded wife as 'mother'. Moreover, he is on record having said that women enjoy molestation (rape) as it their psychology to do so despite the fact that they outwardly appear to show some discomfort while being done upon.

Sugata Bose @Bhaskar Nath : Was Emperor Parikshit ruling over the whole world as Prabhupada says?

Sugata Bose @Jisnu Bhattacharya : Where have I compromised? I could not quite agree to your use of the verb 'reconciled' as I thought it would not be in keeping with the sentiment you have tried to express. So, I used the verb 'compromised' which I thought would approximate the intended meaning. Reconciliation is certainly desirable, not compromise. Swamiji had written to Mary Hale in that explosive epistle of his, "I do everything to be sweet, but when it comes to a horrible compromise with the truth within, then I stop." [54 W. 33rd Street, New York, 1st February, 1895] 

Ramakrishna-Vivekananda runs in my arteries as they do in yours and I certainly will not compromise on their ideals, although I painfully witness their own followers blissfully disregarding them as they rush after Mammon which goes against the grain of the essential teaching of their Chosen Ideal (Ishta Devata).

Sugata Bose @Kirat Kumar Ganguly : Do not bother about how ISKCON beholds Thakur. Only know their essential character which is best exemplified by what their founder Acharya Srila Prabhupada had to say about Thakur, Swamiji, Sri Aurobindo, the Ramakrishna Mission monks et al. Read the Kathamrita. You will get plenty of instances where Thakur is mildly censuring the Vaishnavs for their dogmatism and intolerance. Forget not that Chaitanya Mahaprabhu had reincarnated as Sri Ramakrishna, and Srila Prabhupada, a prime devotee of his, failed to recognise his Ishta Dev to the point of stooping down so low as to abuse him viciously and castigating him as impotent, rascal, fake, pretender and what not. Such is the irony of the Age of Ignorance (Kali Yug) which Prabhupada so often cited as being the cause of the spiritual fall of men, himself illustrating the point as an Acharya ought (being sarcastic) to, following the grand instance of Mahaprabhu, 'Aponi achori Prabhu aporey shikhay.' 🕉 Shanti! Shanti! Shanti! 🕉

Sugata Bose @Utpal Aich : Jawaharlal Nehru we knew was an Anglophile but from Chinmaya Gharekhan we get to know that his daughter Indira was equally so. It is a shame that we do not nurse any manly ill-feeling for Britain out of so-called Gandhian virtue of forgiveness. This is neither virtue nor the forgiving attitude but the amnesia of the coward who dares not nurse any sense of ill-feeling out of stupendous tamas (darkness of ignorance). The Chinese have neither forgotten nor forgiven the British for their dastardly opium trade in their country, and they coach their children in school in the entire history of this colonial exploitation so that the children grow up to become patriotic comrades who will raise their motherland from the dust of their once precipitous state unto becoming the numero uno nation in the world whom the British will have to duly reckon with. What a contrast to this is our condition brought upon us by a succession of Anglophiles ruling, apologists for unapologetic loot by the white masters over centuries! That we are still a part of the British Commonwealth of Nations is proof of our sustained Anglophilia despite protestations that may arise to the contrary that economic benefits accruing from the association induces us not to sever links with the very power that had reduced once prosperous Bharat (number one/number two economic power in the world) to destitution. So much for India's independence and so much for her self-respect. It is the poverty of character, the absence of self-pride and not any ennobling virtue that characterise us even today, a feature highlighted in Mrs. Gandhi's overdrive to attend the British royal wedding which she failed to do under compelling circumstance.

Sugata Bose @Deep Mukherjee : Nobody cares online. All are omniscient or plain indifferent. At any rate we can teach ourselves fine and live out those principles to quicken spiritual magnetism in us which will then attract souls.

Sugata Bose @Paramhansa Shikshangan :  Faith must be founded on real spiritual realisation and must not contradict reason. This was Swami Vivekananda's view. My personal view is immaterial to any beyond myself and our intimate circle of devotees.

Sugata Bose @Deep Mukherjee : Not yet. Ideas as yet unformed. Things will work out by Divine grace. [Refer: VIVEKANANDA ACADEMY]

Sugata Bose @Swati Mukherjee : Thank you for your sincere appreciation. Join the VIVEKANANDA ACADEMY, a study group that has informally been founded by me to promote the study of Swami Vivekananda's life and works. You may send me a friend request as first measure. It will ease communication. Then support me in this grand project. There are a few of my known ones who are already engaged in this work. Our aim is to study, research and propagate Vivekananda. No fees are required. Completely free.

Sugata Bose @Sanjay Ghosh : Sri Ramakrishna Sarada Sevashrama is not connected to Ramakrishna Mission in any way. Check your facts first before you forward instances.

Sugata Bose @Sanjay Ghosh : This ashram is not connected to the Ramakrishna Mission in any way. It is an independent organisation. So, what are you trying to prove?

Sugata Bose @Suvadeep Sen : This gentleman has tendered an almost weeping apology as well, recording it at 3.30 a.m. from, I believe, Mayapur, if I am not wrong.  Trying to retrieve the video but am not too deft in such a search. If you can get it, do post it as well.

Sugata Bose @Shusobhan Charit : সমস্যা এই যে, ঠাকুর যে ইসলামের কথা বলেছেন তা কোরান, হদীস, সিরাহ্ প্রদর্শিত ইসলামই নয়, সুফি মত, যাকে ইসলাম বলা হয়েছে কিন্তু যা আদপে আল্লাহ্ নির্ণীত ও মহম্মদ কথিত ইসলাম নয় | ইসলাম অপরিবর্তনশীল, বিবর্তনবিরোধী, আল্লাহর সর্বশেষ নির্দেশিত পরিপূর্ণ (মুকম্মল) পন্থা | তাই সুফি মত, গোবিন্দ রায় নির্দেশিত যে মত ঠাকুর সাধনা করেছিলেন ও তাতে সিদ্ধলাভ করেছিলেন, তা ইসলাম বলে পরিগণিত হতে পারে না | অথচ, উক্ত পুষ্করিণীর চার ঘাটের যে বিবরণ, তাতে ঠাকুর এই সুফি মতটিকেই ইসলাম বলে নির্ণীত করেছেন | তাই এত গোলযোগ |

Sugata Bose @Suvadeep Sen : Srila Prabhupada had said far worse things about Thakur than this relatively 'innocent' usage of the word 'rascal'. He habitually called his perceived adversaries 'rascals', being himself ill-mannered, to say the least. Prabhupada had said that Thakur had abused so many women in his premarital days that he had been as a consequence reduced to impotence which in turn prompted him to feign continence (brahmacharya) by way of an escapist excuse garbed in ascetic attire. Thakur had addressed Ma Sarada as 'mother' in order to hide the reality of this impotence. This was Prabhupada's averment which has gone unnoticed mostly on account of frothy excitement but which is the greatest dishonour that ought to have been addressed and redressed. ISKCON should openly apologise on each and every such reprehensible statement of Prabhupada. Prabhupada has gone on record saying that women, though outwardly showing some discomfort during rape, actually enjoy it, that this is their psychology. This is an unpardonable offence against half of humanity. No apologies by ISKCON on that count. Mere tokenism in regard to Amogh Lila Prabhu's comical statements has been forwarded. My point is that if exposure has to be made of ISKCON'S intent, it has to be fairly and duly made on the basis of fact and not frothy sentiment doing the rounds on social media. Let rational discourse take place and not half-baked ideas set afloat which go to prove nothing nor redress matters in any way.

Sugata Bose @Suvadeep Sen : I know. I got to know about it initially from probably your first post on it. Then I read through the whole lot of it. It was a revelation on Prabhupada and the discovery of the rationale of ISKCON'S general attitude.