COMMENTS GALORE ... 28

COMMENTS GALORE ... 28

Sugata Bose @Deep Mukherjee : Prabhupada says, service to God is service to man.

Sugata Bose @Pranab Dev : I agree that the founder of ISKCON has consistently disparagingly spoken about Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Gandhi, Chinmayananda, the Ramakrishna monks et al but cannot agree that ISKCON---although it seemingly carries on in the same vein---is worse than the proselytising Abrahamic cults in so far as being inimical to Hindus is concerned. Our persecuted history of 1300 years suggests otherwise. I believe we must, despite our manifold internal differences, unite forces against the proselytising evil of Islam and Christianity. Must we not settle our differences internally without harming the overall Hindu cause? After all it has been ISKCON that has spread the Sanatan Dharma and the Vedic way of living across the world in a much more palpable manner than any other Hindu organisation. Today, Americans, Europeans, Asians, Australians, in fact all the people of the world are aware of Hinduism and the Sanatan culture, have en masse heard about the Bhagavad Geeta and are reading it because of ISKCON. Surely, we as affiliates to the Ramakrishna Mission ought to commend them on their propagation of the Dharma, albeit in a philosophically bigoted, sectarian style but serving the overall cause nonetheless. So, let internal differences within the vast body politic of the Hindus be settled internally and let it not assume self-defeating gargantuan proportions that will aid our civilisational adversaries of the proselytising Abrahamic orders. A huge hue and cry has been raised in defence of Ramakrishna-Vivekananda and a formal apology on behalf of ISKCON has been tendered. Now let us positively move on as complementary elements of a unified general movement, the propagation of the Sanatan Dharma. This is my submission. 🕉

Sugata Bose @Pranab Dev : Yes, indeed. This is the foundational stand of ISKCON, Vaishnava sectarianism driven to intolerant limits in verbal terms. Srila Prabhupada was vicious in his denunciation of Sri Ramakrishna, calling him a rascal and an abuser of multiple young women to self-driving himself to marital impotence, calling Swami Vivekananda a rascal and what not. His abusive vituperation forms the basis of ISKCON'S general verbal attitude ever since. They are a fanatical creed intent of making money even as they sing, dance and chant their way to the corners of the world. They are projecting the Sanatan Dharma in a monochromatic manner and that too with heavy optical aberration. We nust oppose them ideologically and not by mere endless ruckus that knows no philosophical pertinence and does not trace out a path of collective progress.

Ramakrishna Mission has been rather meek and muddled in the propagation of the Sanatan Dharma, engaged overmuch in diluting Swamiji's original message of aggressive propagation of the faith, so to say, which lacuna in the world ISKCON has in its one-sided way unwittingly attempted to fill up. Nature abhors a vacuum, they say---although, Nature is more vacuum than matter---, and ISKCON, the Transcendental Meditation of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the Swaminarayan movement, the movement initiated by Paramahamsa Yogananda et al have all arisen to fill up the space created by Swami Vivekananda in the first place but which his followers could not actively do to the extent that he had initially hoped for and later despaired of. So, everything said and done, let us raise the banner of Swamiji in right earnest by systematic study and propagation of his life and works instead of in-house bickering tantamount to nothing. 🕉

Sugata Bose @Siddhabrata Das : Srila Prabhupada was a Bengali and he had abused Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Vivekananda, Sri Aurobindo, the Ramakrishna Mission monks et al throughout. So, your argument falls flat.

Sugata Bose @Indra Nath Dey : And if by extension someone says, "We are all Indians," and if someone else says, " We are all humans," and yet another says, "We are all living beings," and another says, "We are all conglomerates of molecules or atoms or ions or quarks or strings"? Where does this generalisation end? Well, it ends in the Atman or the transcendental, singular, absolute consciousness. Are you compatible with such a transcendental identity where your present individual smaller identity is lost? If so or if not, you will understand why little identities matter during the formative stages of human evolution so long as we allow a heartwhole policy of 'Live and let live'. May sects multiply but exist in amity and harmony which is the message of our Master, Sri Ramakrishna and his protégé, Swami Vivekananda!

Sugata Bose @Goutam Dutta : But ISKCON's founder Acharya, Abhaycharanaravinda Bhaktivedanta Srila Prabhupada, has said much worse things about Ramakrishna-Vivekananda compared to which Amogh Lila Prabhu has been most sober. As the old adage goes, 'Like father, like son', Amoghji has merely followed suit his founder Acharya and no more but much less for sure. Read up what Srila Prabhupada has consistently said about the greats of our country in the modern age, especially sbout Ramakrishna-Vivekananda, and come to conclusions. So, your prayers may not work as this sort of vitriolic verbalisation is in the DNA of ISKCON. Who will teach Amoghji better behaviour which is but the outcome of better organisational philosophy and doctrine?

Sugata Bose @Debaprasad Bhattacharya : No, not always. More often than not it has been deliberate omission. Whole passages have been omitted. It is easily understood on attentive reading. For instance, the lecture entitled 'Mohammed' which was delivered on March 25, 1900 in the San Francisco Bay Area is replete with deliberate omissions to soften speech. However, one may only guess it to be the case as the original manuscript is beyond one's perusal. I had asked Swami Atmalokananda (Bibhu Maharaj), then stationed at Advaita Ashrama, Dehi Entally Road, Kolkata, about these omissions and his response was, "Must you read those omitted passages only? Don't you find any worthwhile stuff written elsewhere in 'The Complete Works of Swamiji'?" Typical! There the suspicion grows as also from the arbitrary manner of mass omissions just when the words are on the verge of heating up. What you have suggested is every child's guess and I am well aware of omissions following such compulsions. But I am talking of other edited omissions, not because of lack of material but because of availability of 'unwanted' material. So, you see. Swami Atmarupananda who was commissioned to oversee the reprinting of 'The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda' on the occasion of his sesquicentennial birth anniversary celebrations has gone on record saying that Belur Math has in the past altered words in Swamiji's Complete Works. This he got to discover during his engagement as part of the editorial board when he compared the then existent edition with the original manuscript. One such instance he mentioned where the altered word was quite insipid but when he mentioned the original word from the manuscript, my hair stood on edge, so powerful was the impact by just the insertion of a single original word which had been replaced to soften sentiment. This talk delivered by Swami Atmarupananda may still be available on YouTube. I have watched it but it did not occur to me to store the same. Now I will find it hard to retrieve the said material. But I am a truthful person and my word holds.

Sugata Bose @Aloke Mukherjee : Why ban Amogh Lila Prabhu when he is better than his founder Acharya as a person, much more civilised despite his tantrums, and more rational at any rate. You must blame Srila Prabhupada for the foundational intolerant culture he has embedded in ISKCON and the culture of verbal abuse which was so characteristic of him. Prabhupada habitually used the term 'rascal' to describe his perceived adversaries and called Ramakrishna-Vivekananda the same as also the Ramakrishna Mission monks, often spicing up conversation with the added expletives of 'animal', 'nonsense', 'bogus' and 'cheat' for good measure. None escaped his vitriol---Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, Gandhi, Nehru, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Paramahamsa Yogananda, Swami Chinmayananda, none. Prabhupada sank to his lowest when he vilified Sri Ramakrishna as an abuser of multiple women pre-marriage which had rendered him impotent for leading a normal sexual marital life and which prompted him to hide his incapacity under the subterfuge of celibacy to the extent of addressing his own wife as mother.

This was Amogh Lila Prabhu's founder Acharya and wish you to blame the effect while absolving the cause? What do you propose to do with Prabhupada who has passed away but has left his nefarious influence on his organisation for good?

Sugata Bose @Durga Prasad : Read the Qur'an and the Hadees before you hazard opinion.

Must the Muslim follow Ramakrishna's instructions or Allah's instructions as in the Qur'an and Muhammad's instructions as in the Hadees to arrive at his spiritual destination? Remember these two are at sharp variance with each other as any sincere student of Islamic scripture will testify. Hence, imaginary conceptions about Islam as per Hindu predilection, if even at Ramakrishna's behest, do not alter the Islamic doctrines which bind sincere Muslims whose spiritual goal of eternal sensual 'bliss' in Jannat (Heaven) in the company of 72 Hoors (divine damsels) is diametrically opposite to the Sanatan ideal of disembodied final freedom dubbed Moksha/Mukti/Nirvana.

If a Muslim follows Ramakrishna's inclusive instructions and strays a bit from the line of the exclusive Qur'anic doctrine, he becomes an apostate, that is, he no longer remains a Muslim but becomes a kafir (infidel) like Ramakrishna, Vivekananda and all the rest of non-Muslims. So, what do you suggest for the Muslim---infidelity towards Allah by following a kafir, which is forbidden in the Qur'an, and realising the Hindu ideal of Godhead as a non-Muslim [which defeats your fundamental argument] or staying a true Muslim in his exclusive, scripture-mandated intolerant religious idealism and practice, and thus straying from the Sanatan ideal of spiritual perfection? Either way it is an impossible case and an impossible proposition. So, a Muslim can follow Ramakrishna's prescription properly only through apostasy, that is, by quitting Islam and turning a Sanatani/Hindu. There is no other way. Exclusiveness and inclusiveness 'are scarce cater-cousins---(Shakespeare)'.

P.S. Perhaps you are unaware of the Islamic scriptural doctrine that forbids union with Allah which you call realisation of Allah. Ramakrishna's realisation of the Absolute Truth following a sect of Sufi Islam---which is not recognised as Islam, by the way, as per the Qur'an---was a realisation entirely following the Sanatan way which for purposes of proselytising expediency had been adopted by the proponents of Islam in invaded India. As such, he was never a Muslim, classically speaking, not even for the few days of his neo-Islamic practice, and he, if in case he had read the Kalma, had then turned an apostate by reembracing the so-called idolatry as per Islamic conception.

Sugata Bose @Bhaskar Nath : I also read the Qur'an in its translated version in English (simple present tense), being innocent of archaic Arabic to be able to read it in the original. But it is the authentic English version rendered by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. So, one gets a fairly accurate idea of the content of the original text, I guess, linguistic nuances notwithstanding.

Sugata Bose @Dipankar Paul : I am not in favour of ISKCON's philosophy which I find exclusive to a fault, but their proselytising zeal which has won us hundreds of thousands of converts to Hinduism and propagated our culture and scriptural knowledge among the diverse peoples of the world, I do commend and support, albeit with a pinch of salt because sectarian narrowness is alien to my DNA as a true Sanatani. But such are the dynamics of the world today where fanaticism alone wins converts and liberalism dies a definite death at the hands of dastardly elements.

ISKCON has done aggressive propagation of the Sanatan Dharma along narrow sectarian lines which Swamiji had desired along universal Vedantic lines but which his followers failed to follow up on in any appreciable degree. Hence, eventhough beset with philosophical faults, I feel that ISKCON has done yeoman service to the Hindu cause despite its pronounced affinity for making the quick buck by selling devotion. All said and done, it is a mixed baggage that ISKCON is but they have made Hinduism a palpable presence in the world which unfortunately the Ramakrishna Mission for all its sublime service work has failed to do. ISKCON and Ramakrishna Mission are, thus, complementary elements in this grand renaissance of the Vedic culture in the modern world. 🕉

Sugata Bose @Dipankar Paul : ISKCON being exclusive in its theological stance cannot be the centre of unity for all Hindus. Truth must be founded on fact, both theoretical and practical, and is independent of the mutual agreement or disagreement of individuals in the argumentative discourse. True it is that ISKCON has aggressively and unashamedly propagated the Vedic Dharma and culture without apologetic compromise of any sort, has gone into troubled zones of the world where intolerant Islam is at its worst, and has faced persecution, even death, but has not stepped back cowering in fear and loss of faith in the Lord, but it is also true that ISKCON has only preached a narrow sectarian view of the Sanatan Dharma somewhat akin to the Abrahamic religions and has not preached the whole gamut of Vedic thinking which Ramakrishna Mission in its more restricted regional ambit has always done.

Now we come to the identity of the Ramakrishna Mission. While it is true that centring the Vivekananda Centenary College (Rahara) Ramakrishna Mission was embroiled in a legal court case in which to safeguard their welfare institutions from the Left Front Government's undue interference, infiltration and perversion, they were forced to appeal for minority status which they gained after winning in the Calcutta High Court, they subsequently lost the said status in the Supreme Court and as such cannot be deemed a non-Hindu organisation since then, that is, after the declaration of the Supreme Court verdict in 1995. So, what you have said is factually incorrect and you must stand corrected in that. Ramakrishna Mission is a Hindu organisation and preeminently so despite whatever reservations detractors may duly have about their reticence in pursuing a more aggressive policy in defence of the Hindus owing to their professed apolitical stance following the dictate of their founder, Swami Vivekananda. 🕉

Sugata Bose @Dipankar Paul : I request you to thoroughly read 'The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda'.

Yes, ISKCON has rendered yeoman service to the Hindu cause, both in propagation of the Dharma and in resisting conversion of Hindus to proselytising Abrahamic faiths. Let us unite the forces of good to defend the Dharma.

Sugata Bose @Suvadeep Sen : I get your point. But Prabhupada considered himself a follower of the Vedic Dharma. Did he specifically say that he was not a Hindu as the Ramakrishna Mission stated in its legal court case seeking minority status, albeit under inordinate political compulsion brought to bear upon them by the then Left Front Government?

Sugata Bose @Sanchary Sengupta : Alas, this is the decadent order of the day! But let such suppression not deter us from raising our voices nonetheless. Else, the fate of civilisation will have been prematurely sealed.

Sugata Bose @Deep Mukherjee : Arya Samaj does not repose faith in the Puranas but they are indubitably Hindus as they hold the Vedas as supreme and inviolable spiritual authority. Hence, acceptance of the Vedas as inviolable is the fundamental basis of all Sanatan sects and organisations thereof. The Brahmo Samaj does not accept the inviolability of the Vedas and rejects the Puranas, although their philosophy is based on the dualistic interpretation of the Upanishads which is the climactic development and the endpoint of the Vedas. Hence, whether they are by strict definition Hindus or not remains a moot question in the minds of many Brahmos. In much the same way Swami Vivekananda had stated that the irrational portions of the Vedas need not be accepted. Would that mean that Vivekananda was not a Hindu or that his followers are not Hindus? Certainly not. If the essential principles of the Vedas, be they ritualistic or philosophical, be accepted by a person, organisation or sect, then such a one is Hindu for sure. Hence, to my mind, the Brahmo Samaj is a Hindu sect within the gamut of the Vedic Sanatan fold, and more so because it adheres to the original version of the Sanatan Dharma in its highest genesis, albeit in the dualistic mode. Thus, the Veda forms the bedrock of Hinduism as is well borne out as well in Swamiji's 'Paper on Hinduism' which he read out on 19 September, 1893 at the Chicago Parliament of Religions. 🕉 is the unifying mantra of all Hindu sects. 🕉