COMMENTS GALORE ... 37

COMMENTS GALORE ... 37

Sugata Bose @Ashis Kumar Basu : It is a statement of fact that I have made which only parties with vested interests will seek to use for polarisation of polity. That is not my intent though, it being solely to stress on this oft-neglected element of our Dharma by its critics of ideological slant and dubious motives. The universality of the Sanatan Dharma is its defining feature which must be brought out in its true spirit and devoid of the common compromise surface thinkers make of it in terms of indulging in a rough assemblage of mismatched theologies with hardly any intersection of ideas barring those that are ascribed to them by these floating philosophers of little learning and lesser realisation of the fundamentals of the Sanatan Dharma and of those of its less than legitimate offspring. 🕉

Sugata Bose @Anemc Tamilnadu : First decide whether liar or innocent. Indecisiveness ill becomes a gentleman. And passing judgement on others on the basis of insufficient data is an attribute worse befitting of a gentleman.

Sugata Bose @Henry D'Almeida : Fair enough. But why have Christians down the ages persecuted the Jews simply on this assumption of faith for which there is no credible historical evidence? Is that faith-based fairness too? Come to the content of the post instead of spraying about extraneous observations.

Sugata Bose @Arijit Chatterjee : You, my friend, are totally off the mark. Come to the content of the post instead of unduly deflecting discussion that is symptomatic of the superficial or the maliciously motivated, an aspersion which you cast on me but which throws your intent rather under suspicion. In these times of rising anti-Semiticism the post is most pertinent, especially when viewed in historical perspective to which your observation evidently claims innocence.

Sugata Bose @Saurav Dey : There is no credible historical proof of the existence of Christ. But devotion is another thing altogether. Sri Ramakrishna kept Mother Kali's photograph in his room as well. Are we then to assume that Mother Kali was historically born at some point in place and time? You see, reality spiritual and reality historical are two different things. The post pertains to the historicity of Christ or otherwise and its connection to the massacre of Jews as Christ-killer for centuries throughout Christendom. Was such genocide of Jews justified on the basis of belief that had no bearing to historical occurrence? How do you respond to that? People are spraying about extraneous observations typical of the deflected and in some cases the maliciously motivated. Such intellectual dishonesty hardly befits a polity that is supposedly on the rise as we are consistently being told. Ruminate on this aspect of our individual and collective behaviour as well even as you brood on the misfortune the Jews as a race have suffered down the ages on account of a myth perhaps or at best an unproven happening, historically speaking which at any rate must be the touchstone for judging the past and not blind belief that is the graveyard of reason and the trapping of tradition that binds man to fanatical behaviour for which brother man in all his innocence suffers.

Sugata Bose @Hamza Hussainy Syed : Are you privy to such confidential organisational correspondence or are you prone to hazarding off-hand guesses habitually? Instead of addressing the core content of the post you have typically attempted to deflect discussion as befits the prejudiced person. Would it were that you had exhibited greater intellectual honesty in place of indulging in wild imaginings!

Sugata Bose @Subhadip Bhattacharya : Sorry to observe that Swamiji had entertained lifelong doubt about the historicity of Christ post his deep dream on board the ship while returning to India from his first sojourn in the West. It was off the coast of the island of Crete that Swamiji has this dream-vision of a Theraputae monk of the old order of the Essenes who intimated him about the myth of the personality of Christ and had pointed to a spot where the archeological evidence could be excavated to prove his point. Read Sister Nivedita's 'The Master As I Saw Him' before jumping to conclusion.

Sugata Bose @Swami Bhavatmananda : How do you explain the vision of Mother Kali and Lord Shiva by Sri Ramakrishna? Were they historical personalities too? Reality has multiple dimensions and one such is the spiritual dimension. Vision may relate to the spiritual element which may yet be without a corresponding historical element. Moses for sure did not exist. Neither has any concrete evidence been found for the historicity of Christ although claimants are galore for pseudo-historical proofs that supposedly prove the human existence of Christ. Faith knows no reason and rules by emotion and numbers. Here truth is sacrificed at the altar of unreason with demographic dominance dictating terms. Swamiji after his powerful dream vison off the shore of Crete was ever after sceptical about the historical existence of Christ although like most of the people of the times it had never occurred to him that he could have been a mythical personality transmitted through tradition. Whether Christ had actually existed or not has never been with certitude ascertained and thus we have to maintain due scepticism about it. The moot point of the post is this which has been typically, and sadly so, neglected by all and sundry---did the Jews deserve to be historically killed for being Christ-crucifiers when the very existence of Christ is so very much in doubt? Alas, deflection seems to be the dominant theme in democratic India of so-called rising fortunes where 'men may interpret things after their fashion'! Maharaj, pranam. 🕉

Sugata Bose @Md Mahmudul Hasan : The historicity of Ram does not have any bearing on the building of the Ram temple. It is the reconstruction of heritage, the already existent Ram Temple that had been demolished by Islamic invasive aggression, obviously fuelled by hatred of the kafir with direct scriptural sanction. Not one such temple but thousands were destroyed by the Muslim rulers over 1300 years of occupation of which 2200 have been cited by Sita Ram Goel in his book 'Hindu Temples--What Happened to Them Vol 1 and Vol 2'. These were heritage sites enshrining the Sanatan civilisation which was disrupted, desecrated and decelerated by barbarian alien adharmic culture whose restoration first took place in Somnath in independent India and now is taking place at Ayodhya. That you have brought up this issue in relation to a post that concerns rising anti-Semiticism is symptomatic of the mindset that yet persists in the minds of millions upon millions of anti-Semitic people, the vanguard of the only true faith which can save all infidels from the Fire.

Sugata Bose @Henry D'Almeida : That is called whataboutery.

Sugata Bose @Rudranshu Singh : Perhaps so. I keep my scepticism about all such metahistorical personalities till we get conclusive proofs of their historical existence.

Sugata Bose @Vinayak Barwade : This bit of information is to be taken in not with just a pinch of salt but with the whole of salt water available in the oceans of the wide world.

Sugata Bose @Riyed Hasan Shawon : Probably there is no word in English that can adequately encompass the gamut of meaning that the Sanskrit word 'dharma' signifies. But a rough translation of its scope would be, I guess, 'the rationalistic-intuitive progressively purifying path to spiritual enlightenment in perception of the Absolute Existence-Consciousness-Bliss'.

Sugata Bose @Sumantra Mukherjee : But the point is whether there ever existed historically a person called Jesus has not been proved with any degree of certitude. Hence, to kill Jews for being Christ-killer is highly unreasonable. This is the moot point which nobody seems to have addressed in this post which is a pointer to the shallow intellectual culture that is commonplace these days of proliferating mass journalism, courtesy online platforms such as Facebook, X etc.

Sugata Bose @Holenarasipura Nagendra : Truth we must reasonably accept, not falsehood based on myths and cultural dissemination. Any theory or narrative must face the test of rational rigour before it may be accepted. A passive acquiescence to accepting narratives based on mass opinion is highly undesirable and cannot be condoned. Credible evidence must be furnished, the test of scrutiny passed and plausibility based on intellectual honesty must establish what may be reasonably accepted and what ought to be duly rejected. This is the method of historical research which must be the basis of establishing the historicity of a character that is like Christ shrouded in seemingly impenetrable mystery.

Sugata Bose @Arijit Sarkar : These do not however prove the historicity of Ram. Geography is not anthropology. The geological explanation of Ram Setu also should merit the shedding of scientific light on it. Like the Ice Lingam of Shiva at Amarnath is for sure a physical configuration based on the laws of Nature and not some metaphysical occurrence every year. The very recurrence of it year in and year out and now with increasing greenhouse effect the slow shrinking of its size proves the scientific basis for it as opposed to the religious basis thrust on it through faith. You see, the history of humanity is the slow awakening of the scientific mind through the maze of myths and fauth-based assertions. That sages like Swami Vivekananda have experienced the spiritual validity of the Himalayas in general and of shrines like the Amarnath in particular seem to testify to the possibility of the intersection of different dimensions of reality in a single apparent outer frame of matter. For instance, that Sri Ramakrishna saw Mother Kali in the basalt idol of the Jagadashwari deity of the Divine Mother (popularly called Bhavatarini) does not mean that the stone image materialised in the Dakshineshwar Temple of itself and that it was not made by a sculptor's hands. Here discernment is necessary as to how realities of different planes merge in the multidimensional mind and nervous system of man who is after all the beholder and arbiter of his terrestrial experience. These are matters of deep pondering and are best solved along lines of rationality, always taking care to heed that even reason has its empirical limits in comprehending Truth. But irrational assertions of faith cannot be accepted by the rationally trained mind on grounds of allegiance to faith or local culture or simply acquiescence to inertial transmission of traditional trappings. I do not mean to discount outright the existence of our epic characters but am indeed for unbiased research into their historicity which must be truly evidence-based and plausibility-based in the absence of absolutely conclusive evidence, never forgetting that much of our ancient texts have been lost to history through the ravages of time, destruction at Islamic invasive hands (refer to the destruction of the libraries of Nalanda, Vikramashila and Takshashila) and the inability of the conquered Hindu race to preserve their historical tradition with any degree of success against the savage ravaging of our heritage sites by Islamic hordes. Nalanda University itself burned for three months, courtesy Bhaktiyar Khilji, which led to the loss of 900,000 ancient manuscripts that carried the historical imprint of several centuries. Who knows what all data of ancient India was lost therein? Now we must conduct scientific tests of the most advanced kind to determine our ancient history with greater certitude and not merely pass judgement this way of that about the historicity of mythical characters, however holy and sacrosanct they may be in the minds of the believers. That is the way of historical research which must however be conducted without adherence to ideological and party lines. Free and fair research must establish truth in so far as it is possible considering the lapse of ages, obliteration of essential evidence and the pressure of politicisation of even academia. But as I said, truth must be ascertained as far as possible with the aid of advanced technology. 🕉

Sugata Bose @Gourav Dey : There are ample incontrovertible proofs of the existence of both Buddha and Mahavir. Contesting such evidence thereafter may be your personal prerogative if you are so inclined but it shall not be able to bear the weight of attested historical documents, texts, inscriptions, monuments, coins and the like.

Sugata Bose @Shankar Ghosal : Painting, he (Saurav Dey) meant. The said painting was of Jesus pulling Peter from the waters of the sea by the hand.

Sugata Bose @Saroj Pattnayak : Prove it to yourself who art in William Cowper's words and in altered person, monarch of all you survey. The original words were as follows:

'I am monarch of all I survey,

My right there is none to dispute,

From the centre all round to the sea,

I am lord of the fowl and the brute.

O solitude! Where are the charms

That sages have seen in thy face?

Better dwell in the midst of alarms,

Than reign in this horrible place.'

Sugata Bose @JIS Group : At least get the spelling of the name of the great man correct. It is BISHAN and not BISHEN. The Punjabi word BISHAN is the aberration of the Sanskrit word BHISHAN. In his name the second letter 'H' has been left out.

Sugata Bose @Jnanojjwal Saha : What a beautifully articulated response, almost perfect in verbal presentation barring the undue hyper-spacing at the punctuated end where the full-stop has been estranged from the rest of the statement by an undue additional gap, a commonplace error that has marred the beauty somewhat of what has otherwise been a perfectly worded depth-observation!

Sugata Bose @Gourav Dey : I said 'much of'. You are being unduly selective.

Sugata Bose @Gourav Dey : The word 'tradition' does not in this post relate to philosophical traditions which are intuitive-rational in character but to archaic practices being foisted on people in the modern age or catching them unawares through cultural dissemination which retards social evolution and whose regressive nature sends humanity careering backwards to the dark ages.

Sugata Bose @Sukanta Mukherjee : These are artistic representations, symbolism, you see, to express higher spiritual ideas. At any rate, how do numbers matter when ideas represented in bi-armed natural man or deca-armed Devi Durga, uni-headed natural man or deca-headed demon king Ravan, are symbolism aimed at apprehension of subtle ideas not easily accessible to the common man of unrefined intellectual faculties? Besides this is Indian art and sculpture at its best, literature which has permeated the consciousness of the masses and purified them, so long as it does not produce any lasting superstition that impedes progress.

Sugata Bose @U. R. Nandakumar : A bit of both. Now bite it if you can. [In response to U.R. Nandakumar's earlier comment: 'Are you original or myth?']

Sugata Bose @Indranil Ghosh : Same could be the fate of India of increasing Islamisation owing to dangerous demographic change. Who knows India's destiny? The portents are ominous.

Sugata Bose @Subhendu Roy Choudhury : Translations of Swamiji are often weak. Swamiji's original language in both English and Bengali was very virile as opposed to these weak translations.

Sugata Bose @Kalyani Chakravorty : অন্তিম চরণ কারণ আত্মজ্ঞানেই যথার্থ স্বাবলম্বন |

Sugata Bose @Jnanojjwal Saha : But the comment was beautiful in content and construction. This I have stated as well as you must have noticed. It is a most perfect composition of words and corresponding ideas.

Sugata Bose @SB Gupta : Read the post again and find out whether Subhas Chandra Bose and Rash Behari Bose have at all been compared with each other as you have stated or implied.

Sugata Bose @Henry D'Almeida : No, no, not like that. I like to respond to your most pertinent observations. You are original, studious, sincere and well-meaning in your observations. Carry on please uninhibited with your singular responses that inevitably enliven proceedings in the comment stream of a post.